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Jedi2155

Chevy Volt

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As I've said to others and probably you guys as well, the Chevy Volt is the only true competitor to a Prius in my mind. I'll probably be waiting after this sucker is out before I buy my next vehicle.

 

New pic of Volt rear

 

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They also have a new prototype with many more features

 

http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/arti...12/1023/CARNEWS

 

 

More chassis, brakes, batteries and other components that affect ride and handling will be assembled together for the first time on the new test cars.

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Any problem I previously had with the styling is now gone!!! Hurray for the production volt model!!!

 

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This is almost guaranteed to be my next car rather than a Prius.

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epic, insight is not true competitor ?

and that last pictures is completely different than what i've seen looks taller and fatter

startin to look like prejus, what the hell is with prejus style, make something better god damnit

 

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/09/08/artega-...s-in-the-u-s-a/

epic car is epic

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Any problem I previously had with the styling is now gone!!! Hurray for the production volt model!!!

 

http://images.dailytech.com/nimage/9180_la...100166719_m.jpg

 

This is almost guaranteed to be my next car rather than a Prius.

I thought GM was on the right track trying to make a more aggressive/sporty looking hybrid to combat against the many "boring looking" (imho) hybrids. I was convinced that the concept Volt (if it made it to production) would herald in a new age for hybrids as more performance oriented individuals would give it a second look based on it's looks. *BUZZER* WRONG. The words that come to my mind when looking at this production model are: boring, generic, bland, etc. They took something that looked cool and just went "well guys, lets just change it all to a Corolla <or insert whatever generic sedan>, ok?"

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They are also probably trying to get maximum interior space with minimum drag which is why it doens't look like a sports car you get the tear drop shape.

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minimum drag which is why it doens't look like a sports car

wait what?

 

Anytime you minimize drag you end up getting something that looks LIKE a sports car. maximizing interior space does not mean that you need to drastically change things. For example:

 

Prius interior: http://autos.yahoo.com/toyota_prius_touring-specs/?p=int

 

GTI interior: http://autos.yahoo.com/volkswagen_gti_2.0t...pe-specs/?p=int

 

STI interior: http://autos.yahoo.com/subaru_impreza_wrx_sti-specs/?p=int

 

The sti and gti are both performance cars on various levels and all of these cars are hatchback/wagons and yet the interior room is approximately the same. Your idea of creating more interior space and therefor having to make it look boring and shitty is complete crap.

 

If you design any car and make it more aerodynamic it will inevitably end up looking more like a sports car than a fish or this years corolla. As for the interior dimensions that argument is absolute shit unless you start comparing minis to suv's. The small differences in interior space are incredibly small between cars of equal size/class, trunk space is the only exception here and even cars with large trunk space can still be sporty.

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does drag coefficient changes @ different speed ?

 

i wonder if that mountain shape of a car is the best drag coefficient @ certain speed, in this case the speed that is most efficient in fuel department

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does drag coefficient changes @ different speed ?

i wonder if that mountain shape of a car is the best drag coefficient @ certain speed, in this case the speed that is most efficient in fuel department

Drag increases the faster you go. I'm not going into the math+physics regarding drag coefficient specifically.

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Drag increases the faster you go. I'm not going into the math+physics regarding drag coefficient specifically.

but how come performance car has better down force after certain speed.

the harder you drive better traction you get.

wouldn't that effect drag too ?

 

yea drag and down force is different but adding spoiler?

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I do know that Prius has one of the lowest drag coefficients at 0.26 and the original EV1 was at 0.19. I doubt the sports cars malaphax brought up has a drag coefficient less than .3.

 

There...google shows a lot of vehicles with drag coefficients larger than .3 .

 

http://www.mayfco.com/dragcd~1.htm

 

GTI -> 0.32

STI -> 0.30-34

 

More lists of drag coefficients ->

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automobile_dr...es_and_examples

 

So malaphax, I call your bullshit about production sports car drag coefficients. I'm willing the belt the Volt has a drag coefficient of .26 or less.

 

I wikied the drag coefficient the math is doesn't seem that bad actually (basic high school physics) ->

 

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Fd is the force of drag, which is by definition the force component in the direction of the flow velocity,[1]

ρ is the mass density of the fluid, [2]

v is the velocity of the object relative to the fluid,

A is the reference area, and

Cd is the drag coefficient (a dimensionless constant, e.g. 0.25 to 0.45 for a car).

So at 20 ?C and 101.325 kPa, dry air would have a rho of 1.2041 so find the reference area of your vehicle (which you can usually find with the Cd numbers with your vehicle) and you can figure out the exact amount of drag force at a specific velocity.

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what the hell a3 .33 LOL

but i have spoiler O_o and 1 inch lower.

according to professor martin i should have 10000000000000000000.000000000000000000000000000000001 drag coefficient.

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what the hell a3 .33 LOL

but i have spoiler O_o and 1 inch lower.

according to professor martin i should have 10000000000000000000.000000000000000000000000000000001 drag coefficient.

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I in fact did misspeak, I was confusing how drag relates to down force.

 

The fact of the matter remains that drag increases the faster you go and in fact if you had a car with drag coefficients lower than .3 like your suggesting the amount of down force would be insufficiency to keep the cars on the track properly and you'd have cars picking up on a gust of wind and flying off.

 

Any spoiler/wing/lip will create down force and therefore increase drag. You can have a perfect sphere with much less drag than a car shape, it doesn't mean people want to drive giant fucking bubbles. I guess if I have a choice, I'd take a car with drag and down force, because at the point your mentioning that car doesn't have a significant amount of down force to keep the car on a track/freeway (assuming you could even make it hit more than 60mph). So be careful driving through Santa Ana on a windy day, if you hit 55mph you'll see some serious shit...

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back on topic; volt vs prius. VOLT IS EXPENSIVE.

discuss.

Consider....

 

source - http://www.dailytech.com/Production+Chevro...rticle12896.htm

The Chevrolet Volt is estimated to have a price tag of $40,000 to $45,000 (before tax breaks/credits) when it launches in late 2010 as a 2011 model.

Let's assume $40,000 and that you can get as much Federal Tax Incentive as the Prius which is $3,150. That already brings the price down to $36,850. If the "California Clean Car Discount Bill" gets passed (did it? I haven't exactly kept tabs on that stuff) that is probably another couple thousand off. Provided a few other benefits, the price probably drops under $35,000 at which point if you only drive locally then you are only driving on electricity. A 40 mile battery range would get me everywhere I need to go for like 90% of the week. For you ren, on the weekends when you come down here, that is about 60 miles of driving. That means you are only on the gas engine for 20 of those miles. So your gas consumption would be cut down by 2/3. That's kind of a lot.

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Posted Image

 

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FATAL ERROR LADIES AND GENTLEMEN

 

2/3 that is alot. maybe those people who commute to LA from OC will buy this car.

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But also keep in mind that the carbon footprint of those batteries is probably larger than that of a normal car. Also keep in mind that your savings will only occur far later, and that if you sit and ate high gas prices for another few years a fully electric car (or hydrogen) would be a far better option. For that matter you could even say that a motorcycle would be a better option in this situation, because a motorcycle would cost less than a volt and get comparable gas mileage.

 

Honda Rebel Motorcycle Base MSRP: 3,199

MPG City/Highway : 73/86

 

But hey, none of us are interested in motorcycles...

 

Edit: Also Tino, the people who commute from OC to LA would actually be better off not buying a car like this. On the highway you actually use the gas engine dropping the output of the car and the overall savings.

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Consider....

 

source - http://www.dailytech.com/Production+Chevro...rticle12896.htm

 

 

Let's assume $40,000 and that you can get as much Federal Tax Incentive as the Prius which is $3,150. That already brings the price down to $36,850. If the "California Clean Car Discount Bill" gets passed (did it? I haven't exactly kept tabs on that stuff) that is probably another couple thousand off. Provided a few other benefits, the price probably drops under $35,000 at which point if you only drive locally then you are only driving on electricity. A 40 mile battery range would get me everywhere I need to go for like 90% of the week. For you ren, on the weekends when you come down here, that is about 60 miles of driving. That means you are only on the gas engine for 20 of those miles. So your gas consumption would be cut down by 2/3. That's kind of a lot.

Rumor has the tax breaks at around $5-7000 with the California clean car discount bill. So I'm expecting to spend $35k if I get the volt. Of course that tax credit is only good if you actually pay that much in taxes...which I probably will be by then.

 

Ren lives about 15 miles away, so a total of 30 + 10 miles reserve for side trips, so he won't even need the gas trips.

 

I in fact did misspeak, I was confusing how drag relates to down force.

 

The fact of the matter remains that drag increases the faster you go and in fact if you had a car with drag coefficients lower than .3 like your suggesting the amount of down force would be insufficiency to keep the cars on the track properly and you'd have cars picking up on a gust of wind and flying off.

 

Any spoiler/wing/lip will create down force and therefore increase drag. You can have a perfect sphere with much less drag than a car shape, it doesn't mean people want to drive giant fucking bubbles. I guess if I have a choice, I'd take a car with drag and down force, because at the point your mentioning that car doesn't have a significant amount of down force to keep the car on a track/freeway (assuming you could even make it hit more than 60mph). So be careful driving through Santa Ana on a windy day, if you hit 55mph you'll see some serious shit...

How does the insufficiency of keeping a car on a track have anything to do with the design of the volt (which probably wouldn't ever reach speeds that would cause those types of issue). You're bringing up issues that relate to a entirely different set of vehicles designed for something entirely different. This vehicle is designed for efficiency first and foremost with everything else second including price...

 

As for the bubble concept a lot of people hate the look of the Prius yet consumer demand for it is greater than supply even 4 years after release...although it might be a bit different with the Volt since its priced so much higher than the Prius which significantly limits a large set of the possible market.

 

My current opinion on the volt is that they are following the right steps except for the price although that is due to the fact that they EXPECT the battery to die and require to be replaced within the 10/150k mile year warranty, so they included the replacement battery into the cost of the vehicle. They are trying to cut into the Toyota high efficiency market, that they seem to be greatly lacking. If they had designed the Volt to compromise on efficiency and stick with the original style in which so many of people like would merely cut into other markets which GM already does fine in thus cannibalizing a market they don't need to. They need to get market share AWAY from Toyota/Honda which is what the Volt is aiming to achieve.

 

After they have proven the technology can work and work well, then with the better experience and advances in technologies can release a less efficient design that would look more like the original concept that everyone fell in love with.

 

In either case, the GM's technology in this has me sold for the most part.....assuming their regenerative breaking doesn't suck. I hope I get to test some of these before they're released!

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If you plan on driving on a freeway at 65 mph (which I will remind you is the law) but realistically closer to 75mph, you have to consider the amount of down force the car is generating. Obvious I don't think this car will have massive issues and I was being more comical than realistic, however keep in mind that when you make bubble cars the don't create much down force and in fact can be somewhat dangerous. Think about suv's and rollover it's a problem because of a design flaw (powerful car + top heavy + hard turn = rollover). So assuming that the volt can hit 75mph under the right conditions (extreme wind + extreme speed = ?) Realistically I doubt anything would happen with the volt, but when you have that type of design you do have certain things to worry about.

 

Also as far as it being designed for efficiency you have to qualify that statement with low end efficiency or city fuel economy or something. Fact of the matter is that this car at freeway speeds will not be as efficient as other cars. It's meant to be driven like an old person and if you aren't driving like that your efficiency goes out of the window...

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If you plan on driving on a freeway at 65 mph (which I will remind you is the law) but realistically closer to 75mph, you have to consider the amount of down force the car is generating.

Actually, that is incorrect. Technically the posted speed limits are the maximum allowed, not the minimum. See vehicle code 22356 and 22349. There is no official minimum speed but vehicle code 22400 says "no person shall drive upon a highway at such a slow speed as to impede or block the normal and reasonable movement of traffic..." without giving a number. So it is up to interpretation. I have heard of, but never seen, signs indicating minimum speeds of 45 though.

 

I understand the reality of the situation though. If there is little traffic on the freeway I usually am happily traveling 70-75mph along with everyone else and I really doubt a chpy/officer/deputy is going to pull anyone over as long as no one is hitting 88mph.

 

EDIT: I should probably also add that, in my opinion, going less than 10mph under the average speed of the drivers around you is unsafe for everyone.

 

GM took pains in recent months to temper anticipation of the Volt's design in light of what it described as the engineering realities of meeting the Volt's performance objectives — particularly the crucial 40-mile battery-only driving range. Meeting performance objectives — particularly in the area of aerodynamics — played a major role in determining the Volt's exterior design, GM claimed.

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If you drive the commute me and Richard have the average speed i'm doing is more like 75, so by your own criteria 65 would be the minimum I would safely drive and even then only in the right lane. If you cruise 65 in the carpool lane prepare to get honked/flashed at. Also keep in mind that normally I'm not the fastest person on that freeway and there are frequently people going over 80. I happen to exclude them when taking into account the average speed of the traffic around me.

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I was driving 63-70 MPH today in the car pool lane with no honking...most people don't care as much now. A year ago it would've been much different!

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