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Jedi2155

Official Post Anything Electric Vehicle Related Thread

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I have not seen another Volt on the road. I have not yet seen a Fisker in person. What the heck. All I see are LEAFS LEAFS LEAFS. Where are all your plug-ins....

 

On another note Volt sales are starting pick up quite a bit =D. On George H.W. Bush got one too (as did his son Neil).

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Yeah, like I texted you I saw one Volt on the top of the csuf parking structure in one of the charging station. It had a parking permit and license plate "L8R GAS".

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A number of things about that, I could discuss it at length, and I can see the truth in that except I don't believe the 35% number is accurate. I'd wager probably somewhere closer to 50% for the reasons below:

 

The year is 2012. The very same POLK organization also shows that the average length of Auto ownership has risen to nearly 6 years.

Since Hybrid buyers are likely on the "longer" than 6 year mark, we can assume most Hybrid buyers returning the the market to "replace" their current Hybrid must have purchased the hybrid prior to 2006.

 

Total Prius Sales Prior to 2006: 225,000

Total Prius Sales Post 2006: 800,000

 

So... without methodology explained, I believe the following (from inference from Polk's website)

#1. "Loyalty" means that current Hybrid Owners purchase another hybrid as supplement or replacement at a rate of 35%.

Since the rate of market adoption from Hybrids is 2.4%, I would say that's amazing loyalty. Past Hybrid owners purchase hybrids at 17 times the rate of the general population!

#2. A large number of Hybrid owners have not returned to the market from mature Hybrid technology point. IE, Toyota Prius 3.0.

Second, except for the Prius, Ford Fusion, and a few other Toyota/Ford hybrids, the rest of the market just sucks. Honda's hybrid systems suck and are unreliable, it was the biggest reason I didn't go for a Civic Hybrid even though it looked a lot better than a Prius at the time. I simply didn't trust their reliability, while the masses who just assumed Honda could make a good car are now suing Honda for poor performance.

 

Making a good hybrid car is hard, and generally speaking...most hybrids suck. I've said this since the beginning (but you guys probably weren't listening) you don't get what you pay for based on the number of models I've seen out there, and there are only a few I can recommend. A lot of auto companies simply tried to build a hybrid without really trying, just to jump on the "HEY I HAVE A HYBRID SO PAY $$$ EVEN THOUGH ITS CRAP" bandwagon.

 

Toyota, and Ford, were the only companies that built decent hybrids and it shows in their numbers:

 

The data comes from car purchases made in 2011, and Polk found that Toyota Prius drivers are the most loyal, both to the gas-electric technology and to Toyota itself. Sixty percent of Toyota hybrid owners bought another vehicle from the automaker, even if it wasn't a hybrid. A recent J.D. Power Customer Retention Study found that the average brand loyalty was 49 percent, but that doesn't take powertrains into account.

 

According to Polk, forty-one percent of Toyota hybrid drivers choose to buy another hybrid (from any brand). Interestingly, when Polk took out these Toyota buyers from their results, hybrid loyalty rates dropped to "under 25 percent." However, in our book that's kind of skewing the numbers, since most hybrids sold in the U.S. are built by Toyota. When looking only at Honda hybrid drivers, for example, 52 percent bought another Honda and "just under 20 percent" purchased another hybrid (from any brand). The in-brand loyalty, says Brad Smith, director of Polk's Loyalty Management Practice, shows that hybrids "can certainly give a brand a competitive edge when it comes to attracting new customers."

Anyways....

 

Bieber decided to pimp out his Fisker...

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http://www.green.autoblog.com/2012/04/10/j...s-fisker-karma/

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While not exactly an automobile but even more amazing, that someone has developed a serial-hybrid electric plane.

 

http://gm-volt.com/2012/05/03/extended-ran...ors-chevy-volt/

 

http://www.voltavolare.com/

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55 kWh battery provides 300 miles of range, which is similar in capacity and better range than the Tesla Roadster. Pretty amazing that you can be more efficient at that high speed (then again you have a far more aerodynamic vehicle and you're only dealing with air drag). I think that should be the future of transportation, high speed EFFICIENT air travel.

 

The four seater ? which could squeeze one more small person in if needed ? relies on either a Rotax or Yamaha SHO 6-cylinder, 1.5-liter supercharged gasoline engine as the generator. The personal watercraft-sourced powerplant augments twin electric motors capable of a maximum 600 horsepower equivalent ? with 400 horsepower of sustainable driving force ? that turns a single rear-mounted, four-blade push prop made of carbon composite.

...

Once the battery controller kicks on the range extender ? at 25 percent battery depletion ? unlike the Volt in charge-sustaining mode, it will recharge the airborne battery pack to full charge.

...

?She is far and away the most technologically advanced private aircraft available anywhere on earth,? the company says.

 

Top speed is around 350 mph, optimal cruising speed is a bit under 200 mph, and the airframe is engineered to sustain a 9g positive load, and 7g negative load.

Its total range is 600 nautical miles with 23 gallons of regular unleaded gas on board and fully charged batteries.

Maximum operational ceiling is around 18,000 feet, Peterson said, although you?d need oxygen by FAA rules above 12,000 feet.

Ideally, the GT4 works at an altitude similar to other personal aircraft of 10,000-15,000 feet.

Peterson said maintenance is intended to be much lower than with other common designs ? many of which are derived from 1940s technology ? and above all, safety is the priority.

...

The aircraft ? custom hand made ? will cost $495,000 and is not a starter plane.

Faster than a Bugatti, and average speed is probably better too ;).

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Interested in saving money on gas? Want to test drive the latest and greatest electric vehicles? Already an EV enthusiast who is looking for the coolest technology for your family?

 

WHEN: Sunday, May 6, 9:00 AM ? 5:00 PM

 

WHERE: Los Angeles Convention Center

 

1201 South Fiqueroa Street Los Angeles

 

WHY: The biggest electric vehicle event of the year!

 

Come drive and experience electric cars and other electric vehicles firsthand. There is only one place to see and drive all of the latest major plug-in hybrid electric, battery electric, fuel cell electric or hybrid electric vehicles: the Los Angeles Convention Center.

 

Ride, Drive & Charge the latest electric vehicles and charging equipment at our Ride, Drive & Charge event.

Explore the exhibitor floor and see the latest products from the greatest minds from all over the globe.

Attend the EVS26 Workshop 3 - Gen Next: educating the electric vehicle workforce where EV advocate and well-known electric drive industry expert, Chelsea Sexton, will moderate two panels, one with employers and one with educational organizations. Join us in room 510!

 

REGISTRATION:

Registration will only be available on-site for the general public. Registration will be available in the West Lobby of the Los Angeles Convention Center.

 

$10 Adults

$5 Children (18 or Under)

 

http://events.ntpshow.com/evs26/public/Con...sortMenu=103006

 

edit: I didn't know A123 had a racing division.

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I'm going.

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Posted Image

 

 

 

http://events.ntpshow.com/evs26/public/Con...sortMenu=103006

 

edit: I didn't know A123 had a racing division.

 

I'm going.

I'll be working in the SCE booth from 2 PM - 5 PM. If you wanna come along, I can pick you guys up in my Volt and head there? There is a car pool spot on the 57/Pathfinder or Sunset Crossing/60 freeway so I'll pick you guys up on the way. If you're interested.

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It's a fantastic car, although I somewhat dislike the naming/publicity for it. They name it like it's a hybrid or even electric car when it's basically just using a regenerative braking system. While that is certainly a fundamental part of a hybrid vehicle, the vast majority of the car is still "traditional." I think the part of the article that people aren't mentioning enough is that they took 1,2,3,5 positions. Also their normal diesel r18's weren't all that far behind the "hybrids" I think if audi's diesel cars had taken first and second this wouldn't have made nearly the headlines it has. It would have read "audi sweeps lemans" instead of "hybrids dominate lemans."

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They name it like it's a hybrid or even electric car when it's basically just using a regenerative braking system

What is a Prius? I find your comment very stupid.

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Really richard, I had no idea that a prius only used a gas engine and regenerative braking system at 120+kph. You mean an electric motor doesn't drive the car? I'm shocked an appalled at my sheer stupidity. And here I was thinking that a prius uses 2 motors one of which is electric and on CONSTANTLY. I guess I was completely incorrect in my limited knowledge of a hybrid system that CLEARLY USES A SECOND FUCKING ELECTRIC MOTOR FOR OPERATION. It merely uses regenerative braking flywheel technology at high speeds. I'm glad you cleared that up for me.

 

Also while I know very little about hybrid systems, and I would generally defer to you in this manner, I honestly think you're talking at least partially out of your ass. The regenerative breaking flywheel technology has been in F1 previously, and no one gave a shit, in fact most teams dropped it. But now, because audi has taken first and second at lemans it's suddenly a headline catcher to write the words "hybrid" and "lemans" next to each other because it catches the attention of anyone who has ever heard of lemans. While this technology is certainly "hybrid" technology, they are not using an electric motor for anything other than small bursts of power to the front wheels at high speeds. It's not using a prius or volt style of multiple engines with a gasoline engine charging an electric or even an electric motor being used at select speeds. It's using a very specific trait that I personally do not consider warrant the title of "hybrid." I tend to hold that title back for cars that use an electric motor to drive the vehicle, like a prius or volt.

 

I really tend to hold back from calling you out on the massive shitposting you do on these forums, because I tend to behave in a civil matter, but if you're going to sit here and insult my intelligence or suggest that my posts are not made at a reasonable level, I will not sit here and take that. Go fuck yourself.

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When I read that section, it came off to me that you were still highly against the notion that "hybrid" could possibly be a very good vehicle. It appeared to me that you had such a high bias against the idea of a hybrid, that you would try to justify that it isn't a hybrid came off as a flame to the hybrid technology to me.

 

I gave the example of a Prius because you understood generally how a Prius works. The only source of energy to recharge the battery is from the engine, which is used primarily to "assist" the vehicle during take off. EV only operation is the primary mode of operation for any hybrid unless its a plug-in. It is this fundamental concept that the R18 uses (electric assist powered wheels) that makes it a "hybrid".

 

MANY hybrids, especially Honda designs, uses the idea of assist only (not to power the wheels)

- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integrated_Motor_Assist

The theory behind IMA is to use regenerative braking to recapture some of the energy lost through deceleration, and reuse that energy later on to help accelerate the vehicle.

There are many variations of a "hybrid", but in essence it is the presence of different energy sources (electrical,fossil fuel) used to propel the vehicle. Whether that 2nd energy source comes entirely from the first source or not, does not matter.

 

The fact that it only operates at 120 KPH+ is probably merely a optimization of of the performance curve where the vehicle would get the most benefit in acceleration. There is nothing to say they couldn't have done that in the beginning phase of the acceleration and has no real meaning on the architecture of the system.

 

There is a huge stigma against "hybrid" technology as being slow and poor, which is why many race teams prefer to use the term KERS rather than just hybrid mostly due to the stigma of people just not liking the term hybrid which you evidently mentioned. A KERS uses a flywheel, which is essentially a mechanical battery. There has been research in flywheel based vehicle systems since 1994 so when they brought it back in the past few years like it was a new technology (because I have not read a single article that describes any of the research done in the early 90s possibly before), it iffed me a bit.

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It's a fantastic car, although I somewhat dislike the naming/publicity for it. They name it like it's a hybrid or even electric car when it's basically just using a regenerative braking system. While that is certainly a fundamental part of a hybrid vehicle, the vast majority of the car is still "traditional." I think the part of the article that people aren't mentioning enough is that they took 1,2,3,5 positions. Also their normal diesel r18's weren't all that far behind the "hybrids" I think if audi's diesel cars had taken first and second this wouldn't have made nearly the headlines it has. It would have read "audi sweeps lemans" instead of "hybrids dominate lemans."

by most technical definitions that i'm aware of, the r18 e-tron would be classified as a "mild hybrid". it uses some of the distinct features of hybrid vehicles: regen braking and acceleration assist (im assuming no idle stop technology unless they want to save gas), but doesn't have a full power motor that can run the car under its own power.

 

regen braking is a huge part of what makes a hybrid a hybrid. most cars nowadays are actually mild hybrids, but don't want to be labeled as such due to the stigma of being a "hybrid" or "electric" vehicle in a gas/diesel dominated performance car world.

 

alot of cars nowadays that are branded "eco" are actually mild hybrids with small 10-20 kW motors and a small lithium ion battery that they use as a belt alternator starter. one example is the car our team is working on: 2013 chevy malibu eco, but there are many many others.

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My original point is that they're naming it an E-tron, the only "electric" component is the regenerative breaking which is a hybrid characteristic and does technically make it a hybrid but people are posting/acting as though an electric car or a super prius just won lemans. I dislike their naming scheme and the reporting surrounding the lemans win, not the car.

And this is why I dislike the naming scheme, here's a list of other cars which have similar names: Mini E, BMW ActiveE, Mitsubishi MiEV, Subaru Stella EV etc... All of those are electric cars, while the audi is first a foremost a big ass diesel race car.

 

Considering their two diesel r18s weren't very far behind the Etron variants I think their win has far more to do with an impressive vehicle design overall. Their normal r18 won the race last year. Audi has won 11 out of the last 13 lemans races. And more than half of those cars were diesel powered. But no websites are reporting "diesel pushes petrol's shit in" or something similar.

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I definitely understand your POV that the base design of the R18 regardless of powertrain is already a very powerful and impressive piece of machinery due to Audi's extreme attention to engineering the finest details. I only took issue with you not wanting to call it a hybrid. Not wanting to call it an EV and their E-Tron name is another story entirely. I agree with that entirely. That's marketing entirely.

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