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Jedi2155

Official Post Anything Electric Vehicle Related Thread

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article - https://www.caranddriver.com/news/amp28784342/2020-chevy-bolt-ev-range/

Quote

 

....

The 2020 Chevy Bolt EV will go further on a charge than before, with the EPA reporting that the electric hatchback's range goes up to 259 miles, from 238. Chevy says that this 8 percent improvement is due to changes to the chemistry of the cell electrodes in the battery. While the upgraded lithium-ion battery pack remains the same physical size as before and is packaged the same in the vehicle, the different chemistry means that its energy capacity goes up from 60.0-kWh to 66.0-kWh.

Chevy's order guide does not show any other significant changes to the 2020 Bolt other than a few new features and colors (Oasis Blue and Cayenne Orange Metallic join the palette, while the bright-yellow Shock color has been dropped). The 200-horsepower electric motor remains the same.

This new, bigger range number puts the Bolt EV in front of several newer competitors, if only just. The Hyundai Kona Electric is close behind, at an EPA-rated 258 miles, while the Kia Soul EV sits at 243 miles, the Tesla Model 3 Standard Range plus offers 240 miles, and the Kia Niro EV sits at 239 miles.
....

 

Small improvement but nice. I would like to see if they could build a slight larger vehicle (think CUV) with the same tech at maybe the cost of some range. Probably would not help the price though since it already starts at $37k.

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"Here's every electric vehicle on sale in the US for 2020 and its range"
article - https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/every-electric-car-ev-range-audi-chevy-tesla/

Someone pushed it together into a nice table and added a price-per-mile column.

image.png

On paper those Bolt numbers are looking pretty solid. Low price (for an EV) and good range.

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praying for full electric a3 sportback etron with 250 + range next gen. or GTE would be nice 

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27 minutes ago, T1no said:

.....with 250 + range.....

I feel that part is super important. I really should be able to at least drive to San Diego and back.

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On 8/22/2019 at 3:02 PM, kuhla said:

article - https://www.caranddriver.com/news/amp28784342/2020-chevy-bolt-ev-range/

Small improvement but nice. I would like to see if they could build a slight larger vehicle (think CUV) with the same tech at maybe the cost of some range. Probably would not help the price though since it already starts at $37k.

The Bolt is commonly available new right now for around $28k BEFORE (right now its $31k) incentives meaning ending price is somewhere around $21k-$24k post incentive. Currently used Bolts are around $17-22k (many more are expected come off 3 year leases in the next several months)

5 hours ago, kuhla said:

"Here's every electric vehicle on sale in the US for 2020 and its range"
article - https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/every-electric-car-ev-range-audi-chevy-tesla/

Someone pushed it together into a nice table and added a price-per-mile column.

image.png

On paper those Bolt numbers are looking pretty solid. Low price (for an EV) and good range.

Standard Range (SR) Model 3 can still be ordered for $35,000 but that's 220 miles. There was a Long Range RWD available for some time as well.

SR  RWD | 220 | $35,000 | $159.09

SR+ RWD | 240 | $38990 | $162.45

LR AWD | 310 | $47999 | $154.80

Before the LR RWD was discontinued it was 

LR RWD | 325 | $43990 | $135.35

The Bolt based on the pricing I mentioned above is closer to: 

Bolt | 238 | $28000 | $117.65

The prices above are all before incentives.

For shits and giggles I bought my Spark EV in 2015 for around $12.5k AFTER incentives.

Spark EV | 82 | $12500 | $152.43

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18 minutes ago, Jedi2155 said:

Standard Range (SR) Model 3 can still be ordered for $35,000 but that's 220 miles.

....

SR  RWD | 220 | $35,000 | $159.09

If I go on tesla.com, the starting purchase price for the Model 3 is $38,990.

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1 hour ago, kuhla said:

If I go on tesla.com, the starting purchase price for the Model 3 is $38,990.

You have to go to a store to order a Standard Range ($35,000 MSRP + $1,200 delivery fee, most manufacturers charge $500-800 or so) at the store and get a downgrade. Features will be removed

Presently Tesla has a logistics issue so its cheaper for them to include the hardware and software lock it, than to offer multiple trims and supply chain issues associated with it. I heard it costs Tesla something like $2-4,000 to actually deliver a car to a customer presently due to said logistics issues.

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"Volvo unveils the XC40 EV, its first full-electric vehicle"
article - https://www.engadget.com/2019/10/16/volvo-xc40-ev-unveil/

  1. 200+ miles of range
  2. recharge 80 percent from zero in 40 minutes
  3. dual motors will output 402 horsepower and 486 foot-pounds of torque
  4. zero-to-60 time will be 4.7 seconds
  5. XC40 Recharge, it'll start under $48,000 after federal tax credits and land in showrooms by the end of 2020

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On 10/17/2019 at 10:54 AM, kuhla said:

"Volvo unveils the XC40 EV, its first full-electric vehicle"
article - https://www.engadget.com/2019/10/16/volvo-xc40-ev-unveil/

  1. 200+ miles of range
  2. recharge to 80 percent from 10% in 40 minutes
  3. dual motors will output 402 horsepower and 486 foot-pounds of torque
  4. zero-to-60 time will be 4.7 seconds
  5. XC40 Recharge, it'll start under $48,000 after federal tax credits and land in showrooms by the end of 2020

Looks like its designed to compete with the Model Y - Pricing is still a little high to compete with the Y though..

Model Y

  • 280 to 300 miles
  • 0 to 80% ~30 minutes (see above changes)
  • Dual Motor ~450-470 HP, 530 ft lbs
  • Zero to 60 - 3.5s
  • Starts at $48,000 BEFORE incentives
  • 2020 Q1 expected production

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"The all-electric Mini Cooper SE will start at $29,900"
article - https://www.engadget.com/2019/10/28/mini-cooper-ev-us-pricing-availability/

Mini Cooper SE
$29,900
181HP motor
0-60MPH in 6.9 seconds
Top speed of 93MPH
In Europe, the EV was rated for a range between 124 and 144 miles on a full battery charge...
0-100 percent capacity in as little as four hours at home through AC charging
0-80 percent in 35 minutes via DC charging at public stations

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That means it will be under $20k after California incentives. Range still sucks though. Definitely usable but barely. I think 80 mile range is usable as a daily driver but it limits anything to the outer edge of LA and back without charging. This being rated at 120-140 is probably 120 in realistic side should get you about 50-60 miles radius.

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2021 Mustang Mach-E
https://www.caranddriver.com/ford/mustang-mach-e

  • CUV
  • $45k base model. Higher models are like $60k.
  • AWD model has 270 mile range. Other models hit 300.
  • Lower end model power is 255hp, 306torque but other models go much higher.
  • Giant tablet in the middle console.
  • There is fast charging but I didn't see any speed estimates.

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On 11/18/2019 at 10:16 AM, kuhla said:

2021 Mustang Mach-E
https://www.caranddriver.com/ford/mustang-mach-e

  • CUV
  • $45k base model. Higher models are like $60k.
  • AWD model has 270 mile range. Other models hit 300.
  • Lower end model power is 255hp, 306torque but other models go much higher.
  • Giant tablet in the middle console.
  • There is fast charging but I didn't see any speed estimates.

The most interesting facet to me is:

It takes 100 kWh for 300 miles vs  75 kWh for 330 miles on the Model 3, and 75 kWh for 300 miles on the Model Y. The 75 kWh version of the Mach-E is only 240 miles.

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article - https://www.engadget.com/2019/12/29/mazda-says-long-range-evs-worse-than-diesels/

Quote

 

Wonder why Mazda's MX-30 only has a modest 35.5kWh battery when its competition frequently has more? According to the brand's European research director Christian Schultze, it's to help the planet. He told Automotive News that the small pack is "responsibly" sized to have an overall CO2 emission footprint (including manufacturing and energy consumption) comparable to a diesel Mazda 3 hatchback, even after you replace the battery 100,000 miles into ownership. Long-range batteries would be worse for the environment, Schultze claimed, pointing to Mazda's calculations for long-term CO2 output.

The company determined that a 95kWh battery (close to what you'd see in Tesla's higher-end Model S and X) would require more emissions from the very start due to both the larger pack and extended use while driving. That situation would only get worse if you replace the battery around the same interval, according to Mazda.
....

 

The thought has crossed my mind but it's interesting to see some manufacturers try to do the math on it.

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8 hours ago, kuhla said:

article - https://www.engadget.com/2019/12/29/mazda-says-long-range-evs-worse-than-diesels/

He told Automotive News that the small pack is "responsibly" sized to have an overall CO2 emission footprint (including manufacturing and energy consumption) comparable to a diesel Mazda 3 hatchback, even after you replace the battery 100,000 miles into ownership. 

1. The premise that you have to replace the battery at 100,000 miles is a flawed one for multiple reasons. EV batteries should be designed to last for the life of the vehicle but this is an example of poor vehicle design. Current Model 3 Tesla's packs are designed to last between 300,000 to 500,000 miles before a pack replacement is expected with a 1,000,000 battery expected in the next few years. SCE had tested 100,000 mile range battery packs back in 2003. The world has have advanced tremendously in understanding battery physics since then. 

2. Putting a smaller battery is bad from a life perspective as well. You just potentially doubled the emissions because your pack is half the size. This is because lithium-ion battery life is based on the Depth of Discharge (refer to table 2). Basically, if your 10 kWh battery last 300 cycles (30,000 kWh) using it from 100 to 0%, it can last twice as long if you only used 10% at a time 6,000 cycles (60,000 kWh). 

2. Secondary use is a thing. Just because the battery is dead from a vehicle perspective (dead battery means the battery typically still has 70-80% of original capacity), doesnt' mean it can't be used for other purposes example One, Two

3. Recyclability is the real key. Redwood Materials founded by Telsa's recently stepped down CTO JB Straubel is considered to be the real key to "close the loop" in sustainability for the EV world is making a lot of progress in this front.

 

No no Mr. Bond, the reason you gave that spin of a response is because your designers couldn't figure out how to put more than 35.5 kWh in your product safely and cheaply and you're just giving a BS excuse.

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I wanted to see what recent vehicles were available in 4WD/AWD and that were also hybrids or all electric.

link
https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/PowerSearch.do?action=noform&year1=2019&year2=2020&minmsrpsel=0&maxmsrpsel=0&city=0&hwy=0&comb=0&cbdt4wd=4WD&cbvthybrid=Hybrid&cbvtplugin=Plug-in+Hybrid&cbvtelectric=Electric&YearSel=2019-2020&make=&mclass=&vfuel=&vtype=Hybrid%2C+Plug-in+Hybrid%2C+Electric&trany=&drive=4WD&cyl=&MpgSel=000&sortBy=Comb&Units=&url=SearchServlet&opt=new&minmsrp=0&maxmsrp=0&minmpg=&maxmpg=&rowLimit=200&pageno=1&tabView=0

  1. Tesla Model 3
  2. Tesla Model S
  3. Tesla Model X
  4. Jaguar I-Pace
  5. Audi eTron
  6. Porsche Taycan
  7. Subaru Crosstrek
  8. Volvo S60
  9. Volvo V60
  10. Volvo S90
  11. Volvo XC90
  12. BMW 530e xDrive

....ok I'm going to stop typing for now. There are more but also a bunch that are considered hybrids but don't have an electric only mode which is a big bummer.

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