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Jedi2155

Official Post Anything Electric Vehicle Related Thread

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are there monthly fees for owning a tesla ? for services and stuff ?

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On 6/23/2020 at 3:20 PM, T1no said:

are there monthly fees for owning a tesla ? for services and stuff ?

I ordered my vehicle on the last day for lifetime premium connectivity. Any new Tesla comes with 1 year online connectivity (although you can access most of those features via hotpsot) otherwise its $9.99 a month for the data to access Netflix/YouTube and other streaming services via the onboard system.

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 How long before geo-fencing is used to enforce vehicle speed limits or routing traffic?  

The latest software update since April began enabling speed limits to actual posted limits instead Speed Limit +5 when I enable autopilot on local roads with stop light recognition.

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Do the customers understand what data Tesla is collecting?  Can you opt out of certain data collection? 

I do, most don't. It is something you have to opt in/out of to enable certain functionality in the car. There's a opt out feature at anytime in the car. I pay for 3rd party service to access the Tesla API to view my data such as below (this was captured about 3 hours ago as my wife drove the vehicle to work) which illustrates some of the data Tesla is collecting.

image.png

I have every location I've ever driven recorded for my car (Drive 2515) etc. Some example data.

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For training the machine learning algorithms in managing battery pack degradation in order model performance at the cell level (this is a key aspect that no other manufacturer knows how to do, and would require sub second data thus lots of logging), it requires some significant constant data capture not available at just maintenance cycles. Most people don't understand the importance of how data is used and big data or the temporal nature of some of the data.

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This is partly off topic, but since I mentioned earlier in this thread how much I loathe the idea of subscription services for vehicles - here's a great example of BMW being an asshole. 
Also note, that I guarantee someone will end up developing a OBD device/software to get around this type of bullshit. 

 

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Here's the jailbreak for sale already for Tesla Model 3 performance.

Sanstitre_16_940x788_a86065d6-c18d-4dfb-

https://shop.electrifiedgarage.com/collections/performance-upgrades/products/eg-stage-1

That being said, this type of software based model is why Tesla is going to make bank for those who have been watching Tesla's business model. DLC makes tons of money and Tesla being a silicon valley is breaking the business model.

I saw this coming from about 2-3 years ago but was waiting for forever for wall-street to see this huge opportunity for Tesla's bottom line. Its a classic tech method capture the market with cheap hardware then control it with software margins. It's crazy how many people overlooked this part of  Tesla's business model.

Screenshot_20200708-170655_Tesla.jpgScreenshot_20200708-170801_Tesla.jpg

The entire point of the Model 3 cabin design, and autonomous driving was so that Tesla could free up people's time during commuting, add the "6th screen" via app stores/game downloads etc. and basically add an entire software layer to the vehicle buisness. The game updates I've been getting has been proof of concepts that's been deployed fleet wide to get people's taste for these types of technologies that Tesla has been secretly testing their business model. They have TONS of user data to see how often people would use apps on their car. For example when they released Fallout Shelter (from Bethesda) last month I ended up spending 3-5 hours in my garage playing the damn game in my car instead of going on my PC.....

 

20200612_201117.jpg

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I'm really trying not to derail this thread any further, but I want to address at least one point. 

Wall St. is collectively dumb.  There are plenty of market theories (like the efficient market hypothesis) that say otherwise, but in my limited experience wall st. isn't smart and markets do not behave rationally - even when considering more recent theories like behavioral economics. 

I use that as a preamble for the following point.  Multiple companies that use a SaaS/subscription model have seen tremendous growth in stock prices that go far beyond what their actual revenues support, some names I can list: AMZN, ADBE, NFLX, etc.  What Wall St. hears when you say SaaS/subscription model is "unlimited growth" except, that's not actually true.  For one, there's a finite number of people of this planet, and once you start cutting down the number of people who have the money to afford these services you can actually see some of these companies hit a wall in terms of new user growth (Netflix is basically at full saturation for the US and Canada) but Wall St. LOVES models to predict infinite growth and often overvalues these steady revenue streams that WILL GROW INDEFINITELY beyond any reason.  I think Tesla (and other auto manufacturers) could see growth in terms of subscription services (I still personally find this loathsome and like Linus in the clip I posted, I hope it dies and I personally won't support this crap).  It also still represents such a small portion of Tesla's revenues that they don't even break it out on their quarterly earnings.  I suspect that it will take at least 5 years before it's split out as a unique revenue segment and even then, I still expect it will be dwarfed by their auto revenues (as of Q1'20 that was 82% of their total revenues) and solar/energy revenues. 

tl;dr - yea unlimited growth sounds cool, show me on a k1 and I'll be impressed - also stop trying to use wall st. as support for arguments.

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16 hours ago, Jedi2155 said:

Its a classic tech method capture the market with cheap hardware then control it with software margins.

I want to switch the narrative on this. I do not feel in most cases that this is some masterminded scheme by tech companies but is born out of shear necessity. More and more layers of abstraction are constantly being added everywhere for a variety of reasons which requires more and more software as the hardware gets "farther away" from the user. I see plenty of this in the enterprise IT space.

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Tino posted this in group chat.

It's a little different. Seems nice.

The heavy "base" Android integration is cool but a little scary too.

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I like the front and overall look, but the back lights remind me a bit of a dodge charger. 
I still agree with Thomas about the lack of climate control knobs. 
The heavy android integration is honestly a smart design choice.  Volvo doesn't have to dump a ton of money or time into handling the infotainment system, they're essentially farming it out to Google.  Frankly most infotainment systems have been extremely lacking, it's why so many people want android auto and apple car play integration.  I suspect that Volvo is looking at this as an evaluation step, if Google's system is good enough, they'll continue to use them as a vendor for infotainment, and if it doesn't work well, they'll have time to hire and create their own infotainment system.

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2021 Toyota Rav4 Prime

Product page: https://www.toyota.com/rav4prime/

I feel there are a lot of things to like about this car.

 

 

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The importannce of battery cooling is a big deal in any EV, and why I still think Tesla's decision to go small form factor continues to be a genius move compared to the large format designs by EVERY other EV maker.

Porsche Taycan here slowing down due to overheating...

https://www.thedrive.com/tech/32362/watch-a-porsche-taycan-turbo-s-hit-top-speed-then-slow-to-save-its-batteries

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There are very few places besides a track that you can hit a car's top speed.  Honestly I used to think the electronic top speed limiters were lame, but I don't think that hitting 150+ mph is a realistic goal unless you find a serious track or plan on renting a car in Germany and driving on the autobahn. 

Also, Tesla literally had the exact same thing happen to it...
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-3-performance-autobahn-high-speed-test-video/

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The car also had no problems hitting speeds beyond 140 mph (230 km/h). What really surprised the Tesla owner was that the Model 3 did not overheat at all. There were times when the Model 3 Performance seemed to be limiting its speed to around 120 mph, but after a few moments, the vehicle was ready to hit top speed once more.  

 

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23 hours ago, Malaphax said:

There are very few places besides a track that you can hit a car's top speed.  Honestly I used to think the electronic top speed limiters were lame, but I don't think that hitting 150+ mph is a realistic goal unless you find a serious track or plan on renting a car in Germany and driving on the autobahn. 

Also, Tesla literally had the exact same thing happen to it...
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-3-performance-autobahn-high-speed-test-video/

 

If you look into the details, Tesla has solved the overheating issue with additional software tweaks (Track Mode among other things). I was showing the guys during our drive on Saturday that i can overclock my AC compressor on the car to provide additional cooling .

https://www.tesla.com/support/track-mode

P3D_Stealth gets Track Mode V2 too! : teslamotors

I absolutely agree that the use cases are extremely limited and really on applicability to very few instances. That being said, its just one of those halo-type features  of "wouldn't it be cool...." and helps you sell the car even though you'd never use it. Its marketing and it works really well. It's part of the reason I upgraded to the performance package back in 2018 for an extra $5k. 

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To summarize:

  • Polestar has a far better interior (and likely better build quality compared to US built model 3's)
  • Fully loaded PoleStar in UK is cheaper than Model 3 (although its a lot cheaper for the Performance 3 in the USA)
  • Tesla better in any other metric (driveability, range, usability etc.)

My opinion, admirable attempt by Volvo and definitely a great vehicle, but it just can't compete against a company that is literally applying every edge of technology development the moment its developed onto its products. This results in a product that doesn't have the same refinement as the Polestar but literally the state of the art the moment you buy it (which has its own pros and cons).

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Apparently this was "announced" a few months ago but a lot of details have been released today. ITSAJEEP.

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i like the front i dont like the back.

interior looks interesting.

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