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kuhla

Keyboards & Mice

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Staring a new thread because meh. Here is some of the general consensous on the best gaming mouse sensors from the current major respected companies:

 


PMW3366DM-VWOU

Logitech G502


PMW3310H

 

Asus Strix Claw

Corsair M45

Roccat Kone Pure Optical Military

Steelseries Rival

Zowie FK1 / FK2


AM010

 

Logitech G302 / G402 / G602


A3090 (if DPI set to <4000)

A whole lot of mice.

 

Of course a mouse's performance relies on more than just the sensor but it's not a bad idea if shopping for a new mouse to start narrowing down the list by picking one that has a good sensor in it.

 

EDIT: Forgot to add that when I was at Fry's the other day I had a chance to try a G302 that was outside it's packabing and despite the slightly odd shape I found it pretty comfortable.

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I've been debating getting a G502 / G602....not sure. Usually the same price.

 

Parts of the shape, the weight and the placement of the side buttons are different between those two models.

 

http://gaming.logitech.com/en-us/product/g502-proteus-core-tunable-gaming-mouse

 

http://gaming.logitech.com/en-us/product/g602-wireless-gaming-mouse

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im using g402 now.

pretty comfortable i was debating getting the 502 but the weight compare to the previous mouse wasnt that big and i wanted a lighter mouse.

and as far as the fusion engine. i never once went over the threshold but i have it on anyway. and they dont seems to work on vertical movement. only horizontal.

 

but imo best mouse for me til to this day is still the old logitech G9

 

my previous mouse is g700S

still have it as back up but since i play a lot of cs / fps it was too heavy cause they have battery in there and its hybrid wire/wireless

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I was aware they were both different in shape. The real issue for me is that my existing equipment works "good enough" and I no longer have the attention span to fully analyze and utilize every feature of my devices. My G500 works great, so its hard to justify getting a G502/602. I know they're significantly different and I've been watching their sales for a few months. When my MX518/G15 at work finally dies (its still going strong daily for 9+ years!) I'll definitely have to get another mouse but until then its a I don't know.

 

Besides all that, I'm really unsure of the wired vs. wireless angle. Does the weight really affect me...

 

I wasn't a huge fan of the G9 but it was a decent mouse.

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I wasn't a huge fan of the G9 but it was a decent mouse.

 

The G9x is/was a very unique shape in the grand scheme of things (mainly the square, flat sides) and there are a group of people wondering if Logitech will make a successor. There were some people ran it without the "grips". I'm actually very curious if I would like the shape.

 

Small tangent: THE MOST comfortable mouse I have ever owned was the Razer Viper. Too bad it was literally one of THE WORST performing mice I've ever owned. The sensor couldn't even keep up during browsing, much less gaming.

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g9/g9x was kinda ugly but it fits perfectly with my hand and the way i rest my lower palm into the mouse pad itself. i would argue it barely has a have a palm rest. i was gonna get the zowie fk1 but im a logitech whore.

 

there are a few sales on logitech. there was a kotaku article few days ago.

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This is the second company that seems to be moving away from Cherry switches. Logitech is doing the same thing with their new keyboards as well.

http://gaming.logitech.com/en-us/product/rgb-gaming-keyboard-g910

 

http://anandtech.com/show/8766/logitech-2014-switzerland-tech-day-the-hills-are-alive-with-the-sound-of-romer-g

 

Also the steelseries keyboard looks cool (lol at the massive spacebar), but it once again does not have dedicated media buttons. I'm not sure if I'm in the minority wanting media keys at this point. I'm sure I could program some of the macro keys for it, but that's not the point.

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i tried the g910 i liked them but not sure if i want to spend 180 on that shit. not sure if i like the keyshape

 

the romer g is cool shorter travel and it doesnt sounds like a horse.

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the romer g is cool shorter travel and it doesnt sounds like a horse.

See I kind of like my klickity klack sound when I type/play furiously. Although to be fair I have put an o-ring mod on my keyboard.

 

The Romer-G keys don't really appear to be modable.

 

Also a cursory glance at some of the reviews for the g910 out there suggest that the romer-g's are quieter but not that great in comparison to cherry switches. That's not entirely surprising to me, but somewhat sad all the same.

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I would like one of these for work but i don't think any if these gaming keyboards are nondescript enough to bring in.

 

I currently use a steelseries 6gv2 and am looking at getting a 6gv2 red soon.

 

http://steelseries.com/products/keyboards/steelseries-6gv2

 

Any suggestions for alternatives?

 

What are you looking for? Just something mechanical? What type of Cherry MX keys? The one you linked are MX Black are linear. MX Reds are also linear. Do you want tactile feedback (MX Brown)?. Since it's for work, I'm assuming you don't want one with audible feedback (MX Blue or Green).

 

There are some other simple looking Cherry MX keyboards from Rosewill. Just switch the backlight off: http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=Rosewill%2BApollo%2BMechanical%2BKeyboard%2B&N=8000&isNodeId=1

 

Cooler Master also has a few on the simple looking side: http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=8000&IsNodeId=1&Description=Cooler%2BMaster%2BMechanical%2BKeyboard&bop=And&Order=PRICE&PageSize=30

 

O-ring mod may also be something worth considering if noise is a possible issue even with the linear switches: http://www.overclock.net/t/1222969/double-o-ring-mod-for-mx-switches

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I'm actually looking for a setup for my current work.

 

As far as mice are concerned I'd prefer a wireless mouse, I also need a minimum of 2 side buttons. I'm leaning towards some of the logitech mice because they have their free scroll wheels.

Some options so far:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826104394&ignorebbr=1&cm_re=logitech_wireless_mouse-_-26-104-394-_-Product

 

The keyboard needs to have 10 key, media keys would be nice but are not necessary. I'm leaning away from mechanical, because even if I o-ring mod it I'm sure I'll be typing loud enough to disturb other people in my office.

 

I'm open to suggestions. Bonus points will be awarded if they're nondescript enough to slip past as a purchase request.

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The keyboard needs to have 10 key, media keys would be nice but are not necessary. I'm leaning away from mechanical, because even if I o-ring mod it I'm sure I'll be typing loud enough to disturb other people in my office.

 

If you are leaning away from mechanical than I guess this kind of meets what you are looking for. It's pretty much traditional membrane key action though. No one makes "high end" membrane. I mean, yes, technically Cooler Master has a keyboard available that has Topre switches which are some hybrid mechanical/membrane but it's really expensive for what it is and there is only one model available.

 

EDIT: Shame on me, I forgot about the Corsair Raptor keyboards: http://www.corsair.com/en-us/gaming-keyboards

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Yea the raptor keyboards line up pretty well, the only downside I see is a lack of wrist rest on the lower end models, but I could buy a third party one, or go for a desk sized mouse mat if that really bothered me.

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mechanical is no problem at my work. a lot of the engineers are more tech-savvy (nerds) and have mechanical keyboards.

 

I like the switches I have now but would like something with 1. less actuation force and/or 2. less travel to actuation. I do not plan to or need to o-ring mod.

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A little more info about that new steelseries keyboard. If it wasn't for the high MSRP, as expected from Steelseries, this would seem like something worth considering for myself.

 

source - http://anandtech.com/show/8896/steelseries-ces-apex-m800-qs1-mechanical-switch-and-sentry-eye-tracker

product page - http://steelseries.com/us/products/keyboards/steelseries-apex-m800-customizable-mechanical-gaming-keyboard

 

Focusing on just keyboards for a moment, they have two product lines, the G-LINE features mechanical Cherry MX switches while the APEX line is for users that prefer membrane switches. (Yes, apparently such people do exist.)
....

At CES, SteelSeries was showing off a new mechanical switch that they worked with Kailh to design. They're calling this the Linear QS1 switch, and it's completely different from existing mechanical switches as far as I can tell. It features 3mm travel with a 1.5mm actuation point, 45cN force, and it's rated for 60 million actuations. That's nothing particularly new for mechanical switches, but what sets the QS1 apart from other switches is the feel. Basically, SteelSeries set out to create a new switch that would feel more like a membrane switch, but it would keep the longevity and durability properties of a mechanical switch. That switch is the Linear QS1, and it will be showing up in the new APEX M800 keyboard.
....

As far as the performance of the QS1 switch, SteelSeries says it's "built for speed" and will target gamers. I'm probably not skilled enough at any games these days to notice the difference, but typing on the keyboard felt good. Keyboards are inherently highly subjective, so it's impossible to declare one type of switch as being universally superior, which means the QS1 is really just one more option – albeit a SteelSeries exclusive. Pricing is currently targeting $199 MSRP, with availability sometime in the coming months.

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I'm not really sure why a scan rate would be limited to a floor of 20ms. Why aren't companies scanning at higher rates if this is an issue with latency.

 

I did a quick search and found this: https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/terms.php

 

A mechanical switch, being mechanical and generally filled with springs and thin metal, will tend to bounce around several times making and breaking electrical contact before coming to rest. This often ranges up to 5ms. The firmware designer of the keyboard controller takes this into account and sets the scanning rate high enough that keys are being reported accurately but low enough that multiple erroneous key presses aren't sent to the PC.

 

Scanning Rate:
While it is very useful for mice, it's just about meaningless for keyboards. Let's assume for a minute that all switches have the 5ms debouncing time of Cherry MX switches (which is being very generous). Even if you had super human speed and reflexes, every single key would be delayed by at least that much. So really, any polling rate over 200Hz (at best) is absolutely useless, and nothing but market hype.

I have no idea how much faith I want to put into that bit of information, but the idea of a key making multiple contacts and limiting the number of times a keyboard controller can scan makes at least some sense.

 

I'm also finding it hard to believe that every mechanical keyboard has an inbuilt 20ms. I would need to do more research before I start buying into all of these claims.

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I don't know much about keyboard design but good controllers will have some hysteresis built in to compensate for this kind of thing.

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It sounded to me like a good chunk of what they were talking about was just USB polling rate, something people have been playing with for years with their keyboards and mice.

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