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kuhla

Keyboards & Mice

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I had to RMA my corsair m65 (second one I've purchased) because the scroll wheel was starting to squeak. Now corsair is starting to play games with me about honoring their warranty and I might end up having to buy another mouse.

I really like my corsair mouse because it has a small "shelf" for my thumb to rest on which I find comfortable but I fully admit I have almost never used their DPI clutch (the sniper button) even though I really should in more games.

 

I'm debating looking into getting something completely different and after just glancing through this thread I'm wondering if I should go with something completely different like the Logitech g900 or something else. I spent a short amount of time looking around for info about the Asus ROG Gladius and found out that their recent firmware is complete shit (problems with debouncing and their solution was to add 20ms latency to clicks). I feel like I just need something with 2 side buttons but I'm completely lost otherwise. The only thing I'm certain of is that I will not buy anything from Razer.

 

Let me know if you guys have any suggestions. If I'm feeling extra spiffy I might look into a new keyboard as well.

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While I appreciate the advice of "go full retard" I'm hesitant to get the G910 considering they still use their romer g switches. I would need to take a trip to fry's a test the g910 out if I was at all serious about it. I've heard many people compare the switches to mx browns with o-rings and considering the only difference between browns and reds is a slight tactile feel I have a feeling it wouldn't be too crazy.

 

I've been very happy with my cherry Red's (especially after the o-ring mod) and if there was a different keyboard besides the Corsair Strafe that offered cherry silent I would probably go with that.

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problems with debouncing and their solution was to add 20ms latency to clicks

 

This is a common software solution taught in school. AFAIK, the only other way is to design it via hardware, but I'm not a switch expert. Ren might have more experience.

 

*edit*

 

After thinking about some more, there probably is a software way to emulate a hardware equivalent but probably just Asus being lazy.....

 

FYI, based on some of my recent experience on Asus products, I avoid them almost like the plague now.

 

Hardware-Switch-Debouncing.jpg

 

Probably can do the above with a few variables and low level C by creating a SR (Set/Reset) Flip Flop and NAND logic. Seeing how modern mice uses ARM microcontrollers, I don't see how this can't be done.

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I had to RMA my corsair m65 (second one I've purchased) because the scroll wheel was starting to squeak. Now corsair is starting to play games with me about honoring their warranty and I might end up having to buy another mouse.

I really like my corsair mouse because it has a small "shelf" for my thumb to rest on which I find comfortable but I fully admit I have almost never used their DPI clutch (the sniper button) even though I really should in more games.

 

I'm debating looking into getting something completely different and after just glancing through this thread I'm wondering if I should go with something completely different like the Logitech g900 or something else. I spent a short amount of time looking around for info about the Asus ROG Gladius and found out that their recent firmware is complete shit (problems with debouncing and their solution was to add 20ms latency to clicks). I feel like I just need something with 2 side buttons but I'm completely lost otherwise. The only thing I'm certain of is that I will not buy anything from Razer.

 

Let me know if you guys have any suggestions. If I'm feeling extra spiffy I might look into a new keyboard as well.

 

The thumb "shelf" may be a bit of an issue. Not that many mice have one as small and low as the M65. If you are just looking for something that leans more ergonomic shape, that would open up your options.

 

More in the direction of just ergonomic shape: Roccat Kone Pure Optical Military. Image below.

 

71-muRGzIQL._SL1500_.jpg

 

go full retard 150 dollar G900!!!!! and 910.

 

The G900 is all kinds of cool but $$holy$$shit$$you$$pay$$for$$it. If it was less, I would seriously consider one myself.

 

While I appreciate the advice of "go full retard" I'm hesitant to get the G910 considering they still use their romer g switches. I would need to take a trip to fry's a test the g910 out if I was at all serious about it. I've heard many people compare the switches to mx browns with o-rings and considering the only difference between browns and reds is a slight tactile feel I have a feeling it wouldn't be too crazy.

 

I've been very happy with my cherry Red's (especially after the o-ring mod) and if there was a different keyboard besides the Corsair Strafe that offered cherry silent I would probably go with that.

 

Go to Best Buy to test Logitech peripherals, not Fry's. BB has a whole little display just for Logitech's gaming stuff.

 

 

 

problems with debouncing and their solution was to add 20ms latency to clicks

 

This is a common software solution taught in school. AFAIK, the only other way is to design it via hardware, but I'm not a switch expert. Ren might have more experience.

 

*edit*

 

After thinking about some more, there probably is a software way to emulate a hardware equivalent but probably just Asus being lazy.....

 

FYI, based on some of my recent experience on Asus products, I avoid them almost like the plague now.

 

Probably can do the above with a few variables and low level C by creating a SR (Set/Reset) Flip Flop and NAND logic. Seeing how modern mice uses ARM microcontrollers, I don't see how this can't be done.

 

 

Can't add a latency like that when testing software is looking.... started typing got distracted got to run....

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Yea I know we previously mentioned debouncing in this very thread. I think the real issue is that asus' recent firmware was an attempt to remedy the switches being too sensitive (bumping the mouse could cause a mouse click), but the real issue is that a human can hit a double click in 20ms (actually more like 40 because of the delay on both the up and down) which leads to the mouse feeling laggy or like it's eating your inputs. That's absolutely unacceptable for a gaming mouse.

 

For all the recent trends of slapping on tons of lights and bells/whistles onto peripherals Logitech and Corsair still make really solid products and it's hard to not gravitate towards their offerings. I briefly looked at some of the steelseries stuff and wasn't very impressed. I can live with a basic mouse shape but it feels like everyone is rehasing the old simple style of an ambidexterous mouse with 2 side buttons and a rounded shape. I mean look at this offering from FinalMouse:

tournamentambi4.jpg

tournamentambi5.jpg

And compare that to a steelseries mouse:

tweak_dk_SteelSeries_Sensei_RAW_FULL_12.

11.png

The only major difference is that the steel series chooses to have contoured mouse buttons. I'm not trashing on the design, frankly I'm still considering a final mouse but that particular design is old and uninspired. I refuse to believe that we've hit the apex of mouse ergonomics and that there's no room for improvement.

 

I do like the steelseries keyboard, but again it uses their own proprietary switch type QS1: https://deskthority.net/wiki/SteelSeries_QS1

I've heard that both the romer-g and the QS1 are quieter and have slightly shorter actuation than the cherry switches but on the flipside you have the g910 with huge bevels on their keycaps and steelseries with ultra low profile, flat keycaps.

 

The keyboard I'm not as happy to consider replacing, but it has been quite a few years and it's probably about time to get something new.

 

EDIT:

In response to Kuhla's points.

Yea I would almost consider that roccat mouse. I hesitate to journey too far down the "ergonomic" path because I don't think my current m65 is actually all that ergo, and the thumb placement is probably something I could get used to.

 

I will consider going to best buy and testing out their logitech display, although I have a worry that with all the unwashed masses hamfistedly banging on that thing it might not be a foolproof way of testing it.

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Some additional thoughts I've had.

 

I happen to use a non-gaming logitech mouse at work with the hyper scroll wheel, and I do appreciate that feature. There's also the G502 which apart from being odd looking does have a "shelf" and a more ergo style than some of the other logitech mice.

Additionally if I wanted to be boring I could get the new m65 pro with the pixart 3360 (non-logitech exclusive version of the 3366 in the g900). So there's the option of getting the exact same mouse as I'm currently using and grabbing the newest sensor.

I would also consider upgrading my keyboard to the k95 rgb (the upgraded version of my k90). I might even consider swapping from cherry reds to cherry browns and then o-ring modding them again. While I don't necessarily want to keep the distinctive mechanical clickity-clack there are some advantages of having a "hard" bottom of the cherry's and I have the ability to swap out key caps if I ever wanted to.

 

Right now I'm leaning towards just upgrading my corsair stuff (known quantity) but if I do decide to "go full retard" I might just swap out everything for the logitech g900 and g910.

 

Even if I wanted to get a g900 it doesn't release until the end of this month. I'll probably just sit on this decision for another week or so, hopefully I can carve out some time to head down to best buy and try out the g910 and see if I could imagine using the romer g keys and those crazy beveled keycaps.

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logitech mx300
logitech mx518
logitech g5
logitech g9
logitech g9x
logitech g700
logitech g700s
logitech g402 <--- current

 

alll my mice

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I'm still uncertain on the keyboard front. The closest to my ideal keyboard is actually the g710+ but it does not come with the option of mx red switches. A quick google says that you can "replace" the spring and plunger which would be a rough way of changing most of the switch without the need for a soldering iron.

 

There are some other possible options like the logitech 610 (mx red) and the 810 (romer g) but since both of these keyboards lack macro switches it would be a major compromise.

I could go and upgrade my current corsair k90 to a k95 but I've seen multiple postings about LEDs dying on these things, and I'm not even super happy with the k95 as an option because I can't quite fine a use for 18 macro keys. I'd get a g910 but the key caps are too weird.

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BkM60vK.jpg

Ended up getting the K95 and the G900. The K95 is basically just an upgraded version of my k90 with a few minor tweaks. I did o-ring mod it right away and I'm pretty happy with that, I still wish I could quiet down the space bar a bit more.

The G900 is really nice. It's very light, and charges in roughly 2 hours, and you can still use it as wired when it's charging. I haven't noticed any latency from the mouse. The only complaint I have is the scroll wheel seems very rough, each click is rather severe, but you can always turn on hyper scrolling which is nice.

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I grabbed it online. I think newegg will have it in stock in the next couple of days. Looks like amazon is temporarily out of stock as well, I got lucky and managed to get one of the first shipments I guess.

 

Just keep in mind that there are some issues with size, I know a few people mentioned that if you have small hands and use a claw grip you probably need to be careful, the actuation point on the left/right buttons isn't as forgiving as a traditional mouse. Also the left/right buttons do have about 1-1.5mm of play side to side, some people really dislike that.

I'm very happy with it, I've been using it for some gaming and haven't noticed any difference in my aim (it's still just as shitty) but having no wires is a pretty fantastic feeling. I really wouldn't get this mouse unless you absolutely want a wireless gaming mouse, there are plenty of cheaper options that perform just as well as the g900 if you want a wired mouse.

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im willing to try it because i actually like wireless ive use g700s at work. i tried gaming but its too heavy for my taste.

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I use the M705 for my Surface Pro. Using a MX518 / G15 combo at work. My MX518 has been going strong for 11 years now.....very impressed. Although I've been getting some connection issues with the MX518, I moved it from the G15's usb hub to a direct connection to the PC and it disappeared. Seems like the G15 USB hub is starting to give out (after 11 years).

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i like the g900

liked the raised palm rest. reminded me of the g9 style

-the wiggle on the clicker doesn't bother me at all.

-wireless performance is fine; couldn't tell the different

-battery ? haven't get to use it much.

- comfort wise its less comfortable than my g402 but its not that bad.

- ideally i wanted more buttons on the correct side (its my talk btn for my use)

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People talking about some new logitech mouse to be announced soon with a "simple" shape (think G100s style).

 

​.....and here it is.

​Logitech G Pro Gaming Mouse

 

PMW3366 sensor

onboard memory

2 left side buttons

light (<90g)

braided cable

shape pretty much G100s identical

$70

 

product page - http://gaming.logitech.com/en-us/product/pro-gaming-mouse

 

ino review - http://www.overclock.net/t/1608862/logitech-g-pro-gaming-mouse-review-by-ino

 

I expect this to sell pretty well. It's pretty close to what a lot of people were asking for.

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razer-ornata-membrane.gif

The New Razer Ornata Mid-Height Keyboard Features the Unprecedented Hybrid of Membrane and Mechanical Keyboards -- Combining the Best of Soft Touch Keys With Tactile Feedback

http://www.razerzone.com/gaming-keyboards-keypads/razer-ornata-chroma

 

So it has a "clicky" part but the actual key action is membrane... I'm sure this is meant to appeal to someone, I'm just having a hard time understanding who.

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Logitech gaming mice - http://gaming.logitech.com/en-us/gaming-mice

 

New mouse, comes in a wired and wireless variant but is otherwise the same: G403 Prodigy

 

$70 wired - http://gaming.logitech.com/en-us/product/g403-prodigy-wired-gaming-mouse

 

$100 wireless - http://gaming.logitech.com/en-us/product/g403-prodigy-wireless-gaming-mouse

 

  • right hand ergo shape
  • 3366 sensor
  • optional weight
  • onboard memory

Seems like they have a lot of overlap with the other recent mice (G900, PRO)

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Just to touch on the wireless aspect of the recent Logitech mice.

 

The wireless is ultra smooth, I haven't noticed any latency or other issues with the mouse at all. The battery life is fantastic, I get roughly 1 week worth of battery life out of it before needing to plug it in (during which it is still usable), and the charging time is between 1-2 hours. Also since my motherboard/psu support power over usb even when the computer itself is off, I have often plugged it in at night and just let it charge up when it's not in use.

 

I expect that Logitech is going to continue to push this technology across most of it's new mice being released.

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It's been quite a long time now and I'm still in a situation where I type faster and more accurately on the bargain bin, membrane, low profile Logitech K120 keyboard at work than I do at home on my fancy Logitech with MX Brown keys.

I kind of want to try Cherry MX Speed switches for the shorter travel (3.4mm vs 4mm) and shorter actuation (1.2mm vs 2mm) distance like this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823816069and then on top of that I want to see what that would feel like with o-rings.

That being said, I'm REALLY not in a position to drop money on a new keyboard right now. Good thing I don't do nearly as much typing at home as I do at work....

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Topre Keyboard REALFORCE RGB - http://seasonic.com/ssa-en/portfolio/topre-keyboard-realforce-rgb/

I saw someone mention this keyboard and I was like wait... is this new?... Topre switches?... I thought those died off that people felt they were too similar to "normal" rubber dome/membrane and not worth the premium. I guess someone wanted to give it another shot and this just came out the other month.

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