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kuhla

Mass immigration into EU from the Middle East.

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What happens to asylum seekers after they are rejected? Are they just sent outside and told to leave the country with no one overseeing that they actually "LEAVE THE COUNTRY" ?

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26 minutes ago, Jedi2155 said:

What happens to asylum seekers after they are rejected? Are they just sent outside and told to leave the country with no one overseeing that they actually "LEAVE THE COUNTRY" ?

From what I have read it depends but all of it is messy. Some stay and are just officially "tolerated" (one example is those with fake documents because their origin cannot be determined) and some are forcibly removed and returned to country of origin or are sent to a migrant camps like the one in Turkey.

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It's very similar to how the US deportation system works.  Some are tolerated and live at the fringes of society, with varying levels of oversight and aid being provided.  Some are interned before being deported back to the country of origin. 

Quote

De Maiziere said 50 people had originally been scheduled to leave on last night's charter flight, but that some received a last-minute stay from German courts while others could not be found because they went into hiding.

"Of those 34 [on the plane], about a third were criminals," he added. "They'd been convicted of theft, robbery, narcotics offenses and even rape and homicide."

Source: http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/12/15/505653794/germany-deports-first-group-of-afghan-asylum-seekers

If they're found committing crimes they are also sometimes taken to trial in the country and may even serve prison time in the EU, or they may just be held until deportation can be arranged.

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The "migrant caravan" coming from South America to the US through Mexico is in the news a lot. The issue has a lot of similarities to this existing topic so I figure I might as well re-use it.

I am once again being reminded that almost no one seems to want to take the position of being FOR immigration but also AGAINST undocumented immigration. The two camps right now seem very much at extremes with one group seemingly wants unmonitored, open borders and the other side practically wants no "outsiders".

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The best arguments I've seen against illegal immigration but FOR immigration as a whole have to do with illegal immigrants being taken advantage of.  I've seen multiple cases regarding wage theft committed by organizations that knowingly hire illegal immigrants (hotels and hospitality in particular) which go unreported due to their status and fear of deportation.  Regardless of legal status, labor laws and wage theft is taken very seriously and some illegal immigrants have won settlements about this type of wage theft.  I'd like to see an expansion of guest worker programs.  If someone is willing to work hard and eventually become a green card holder or US citizen and provide a better life for my family I have no issue with opening up a legal path for them to follow. 

I dislike the false dichotomy of "if you're not in favor of protections for illegal immigrants you're (racist/xenophobic/trump supporter/etc.)"  It gets even uglier when people are upset about a question on the census asking people if they're a US citizen.  I think that's valid information, but apparently asking it is racist.  To balance my point, I also dislike the idea of people wearing red hats yelling about building a wall, or "they're not sending their best" style comments.  Immigration has been a key factor to this country's history and I think it's made it a better place.

I don't think a 5,000+ caravan of people trying to storm the border is a reasonable solution.  I understand that some of these individuals are fleeing violence but the US cannot just import large swaths of the population from countries that are dangerous/unstable. 

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1 hour ago, Malaphax said:

Immigration has been a key factor to this country's history and I think it's made it a better place.

Some people seem to have completely forgotten about Ellis Island ( wikipedia ) and then when they do remember what it was they forget that it processed incoming migrants. It was not just a port when people got off ships. People were recorded, given health inspections, asked questions and paid a small fee before entering.

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as a migrant myself. i feel robbed if they just let those people come in.

considering how much hard work that my parents put in, time and money we spend to get to lived in this country.

yea we dint have full blown war / civil war where we lived at the time but im here to be safe and for better life. i want my country to protect me and their citizens.

I AM FOR immigration but also AGAINST undocumented immigration.

 

 

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This is not the first (nor will it be the last) migrant caravan that shows up at the southern border.  The issue is that we haven't even processed all the migrants from the previous caravan and there's currently ~5,700 people in Tijuana waiting to apply for asylum. 

There are already reports out that some migrants are electing to go back to their country of origin because they believe their chances of being accepted into the US are so low.  Many of these individuals did not have a firm understanding of how immigration is handled in the US. 
There's also the residents of Tijuana who currently aren't happy with the migrants that are camping out in a converted sports stadium.
https://www.npr.org/2018/11/28/671429590/mexican-residents-grow-irritated-by-influx-of-central-american-migrants

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https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-immigration-caravan/tired-of-waiting-for-asylum-migrants-from-caravan-breach-u-s-border-idUSKBN1O30D5

Quote

Frustrated and exhausted after weeks of uncertainty, many of the migrants have become desperate since getting stuck in squalid camps in the Mexican border city of Tijuana.

So a number opted to eschew legal procedures and attempt an illegal entry from Tijuana as dusk fell on Monday at a spot about 1,500 feet (450 meters) away from the Pacific Ocean.

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Not an actual quote. Just paraphrased:

"we are tired of doing it the legal way, so we are going to do it the illegal way"

This is really really not helping their case in the public spotlight.

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"Chile declines to sign U.N. pact, says migration not a human right: report"
article - https://www.reuters.com/article/us-chile-migration/chile-declines-to-sign-u-n-pact-says-migration-not-a-human-right-report-idUSKBN1O80QT

Quote

 

SANTIAGO (Reuters) - Chile has become the latest country to pull out of a controversial United Nations migration pact....

....Rodrigo Ubilla, Chile’s Interior Ministry subsecretary, told Chilean Sunday paper El Mercurio in an interview....

“Our position is clear,” he said. “We have said that migration is not a human right. Countries have a right to determine the entry requirements for foreign citizens.”
....

The migration pact addresses issues such as how to protect people who migrate, integrate them into new countries or return them to their home countries.

It is non-binding but has met fierce resistance from governments including the United States, Austria, Hungary and Poland who frame it as encouraging migration.

 

What a strange pact to push for. Unless you are a country that relies entirely on remittances, I cannot imagine any country would support this.

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I understand the idea of the Schengen agreement allowing migration inside the EU economic bloc, I don't understand why any country would sign up to allow wholesale migration into/through their country otherwise. 

I've heard some of the EU member states are having a hard pressed battle with internal politics being very split between wanting a more open migration and wanting more strict border controls.  The AFD party in Germany and other similar anti-migrant leaning political parties have seen steep rise in recent years, and pushing for this type of agreement isn't doing anything except fanning the flames. 

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This is somewhat off-topic as it relates to to the US immigration discussion that's currently taking place. 

For context this article is written by David Frum who is a former speech writer for George W. Bush, but is not a Trump supporter.  His concern is that the immigration debate, in particular the political left, has moved so far away from any center line that any discussion about tightening immigration or deporting anyone besides violent criminals is being considered racist/xenophobic.

NPR Interview: https://www.npr.org/2019/03/22/705729699/the-atlantic-if-liberals-wont-enforce-borders-fascists-will

Full Article: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/04/david-frum-how-much-immigration-is-too-much/583252/

Quote

But large-scale immigration also comes with considerable social and political costs, and those must be accounted for. In November 2018, Hillary Clinton delivered a warning to Europeans that mass immigration was weakening democracy. “I think Europe needs to get a handle on migration, because that is what lit the flame,” Clinton said, referring to the upsurge of far-right populism destabilizing countries such as France and Hungary. “I admire the very generous and compassionate approaches that were taken, particularly by leaders like Angela Merkel, but I think it is fair to say Europe has done its part, and must send a very clear message—‘We are not going to be able to continue to provide refuge and support’—because if we don’t deal with the migration issue, it will continue to roil the body politic.”

Clinton’s assessment of the European political situation is accurate. According to recent poll numbers, 63 percent of French people believe too many immigrants are living in their country. One-third of the British people who voted in 2016 to leave the European Union cited immigration as their primary reason. In Germany, 38 percent rate immigration as the most important issue facing their country. Thanks in great part to their anti-immigration messages, populist parties now govern Italy, Poland, Hungary, and the Czech Republic.

[...]

It wasn’t always this way, even on the left. As recently as 2015, the senator and presidential aspirant Bernie Sanders defended at least some immigration restrictions in language drawn from the immigration-skeptical tradition of organized labor. “What right-wing people in this country would love is an open-border policy,” Sanders said in an interview with Vox. “Bring in all kinds of people, work for $2 or $3 an hour, that would be great for them. I don’t believe in that. I think we have to raise wages in this country.” Even the famously cosmopolitan Barack Obama, in his 2006 book, The Audacity of Hope, lamented, “When I see Mexican flags waved at pro-immigration demonstrations, I sometimes feel a flush of patriotic resentment. When I’m forced to use a translator to communicate with the guy fixing my car, I feel a certain frustration.”

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