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Intel Kaby Lake

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Official lineup - http://www.anandtech.com/show/10802/desktop-kaby-lakes-lineup-base-frequencies-chipset-names

 

Supposed leaked benchmarks (2 week old) comparing 6600k to 7600k - http://wccftech.com/intel-kaby-lake-core-i5-7600k-review/

 

Supposedly they have got a 7600k over 5.0 GHz on air which may indicate good overclocking ability but no verification of htat - https://hardforum.com/threads/kaby-lake-i5-7600k-overclocking-results.1915558/

 

Since this came up a bit in group chat the other day. I'm expecting about 10% performance increases from the small bumps to clock speed and die shrink. The 200 series chipset isn't going to be that big of a change either since apparently most 100 series chipsets will have a BIOS update available to them to make them Kaby Lake compatible.

 

Some people mumbling about an early January launch.

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link - http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-kaby-lake-core-i7-7700k-overclocking-performance-review,4836.html

i7-7700K overclocking article on tomshardware which also has some non-overclocked values in their graphs comparing it to 6700k. Not sure how they got a hold of a sample so far ahead of time. Acknowledging that there is a small increase in the clock speed (+200 Mhz base, +300 Mhz turbo), I'm expecting 5% improvement across the board with some exceptions being a little bit higher closer to ~10%.

6700k going on sale from multiple retailers for $260-$270 lately and the MSRP expected for the 7700k being $350 so I think there is still some real good bang-for-buck value in going with a 6700k right now. I think Ren was asking about this yesterday. http://www.microcenter.com/product/451883/Core_i7-6700K_40GHz_LGA_1151_Boxed_Processor

Quick off-topic shoutout to Anandtech's #f6f6f6 background color. Takes the edge off compared to a normal #ffffff.

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It does appear based on these latest benchmarks that saving money with the 6700k is a better option than waiting for the 7700k. You might get 200-300 MHz improvement but that's about it. It makes more of a difference if you're stock user but if you push the 6700k even a little bit, you can easily get the 7700k stock performance without much loss of stability.

 

More importantly, if you buy a motherboard from microcenter bundled with the CPU, you get an additional $30 off making the price difference up to $120.

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HardOCP has now done the same but they also matched the clock speeds of both CPUs.

source - http://www.hardocp.com/article/2016/12/05/intel_core_i77700k_cpu_synthetic_benchmark_sneak_peek/1

The Bottom Line

I ran all of these synthetic benchmarks last week and intended to publish those at that time, however, to be fully transparent, I was extremely concerned that our scores were not accurate. I reached out to various tech companies over the weekend and have verified that what we are seeing here today is very much representative of the Kaby Lake Core i7-7700K when compared to the Skylake Core i7-6700K processor at the same clock speed. We will see some bigger advantages in specific real-world applications, but do not expect any of those to be "barn burners" either. It was suggested to me that I should not expect more than a 3% performance advantage in CPU-centric benchmarks. The new Intel Kaby Lake iGPU is much more robust compared to the Skylake's however.

Moving forward to what we should see that is beneficial with Kaby Lake is better overclocking to hopefully hit the magic 5GHz that Intel has promised for so long, as well as a more hearty IMC that will support more stable RAM overclocking.

Again this is just a "sneak peek," but for those of us that are expecting a better performing CPU in terms of IPC are going to be disappointed. For the CPU enthusiast that has little or no need for iGPU, Intel's Kaby Lake is likely to be the snoozefest of the year. Hopefully we will see 5GHz overclocking wake the new Kaby Lake up a bit. If anything, this has just piqued my excitement a bit more for AMD's upcoming Zen processor.

 

 

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HardOCP's full review of IPC performance (matching clock speed) for kaby lake vs skylake.

I'll save you clicking through, the performance gains were 0.

 

http://www.hardocp.com/news/2016/12/09/intel_kaby_lake_core_i77700k_ipc_review

 

From the article's conclusion....

 

....

 

I left out overclocking in this article on purpose. I want to spend more time with the Kaby Lake CPUs and motherboards we have before I discuss that in depth. However, things on that front do look good.

....

 

 

....that's exactly what I expected. I think the main advantage that Kaby Lake will bring to the table is more overclocking headroom. Multiple accounts now of easy overclocks to higher numbers than Skylake.

 

Back to wondering what AMD Zen will bring to the table.

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Uhhh... that's beyond misleading. You also need to use Edge browser (no thx) and you need to have a 4k subscription, which is $12/month. Why would I jump through all those hoops when I can just get the inevitable rips that people make?

 

I generally like Netflix as a company and their practices have been very fair, but these particular requirements are not just arduous but asinine. I have a feeling that 4k will become more mainstream on Netflix as time goes on, but this first pass looks pretty stupid.

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Came out today. Have not read either of them yet. May edit in some bits later.

The Intel Core i7-7700K (91W) Review: The New Out-of-the-box Performance Champion - http://www.anandtech.com/show/10968/the-intel-core-i7-7700k-91w-review-the-new-stock-performance-champion

The Intel Core i5-7600K (91W) Review: The More Amenable Mainstream Performer - http://www.anandtech.com/show/10969/the-intel-core-i57600k-91w-review-the-more-amenable-mainstream-performer

 

EDIT 1:

 

Intel Launches 7th Generation Kaby Lake: 15W/28W with Iris, 35-91W Desktop and Mobile Xeon - http://www.anandtech.com/show/10959/intel-launches-7th-generation-kaby-lake-i7-7700k-i5-7600k-i3-7350k

...
...there is no underlying change to the microarchitecture. As a result, Intel are not promoting any performance difference with the previous generation (Skylake, 6th Gen, SKL) at a given frequency. They are however promoting better efficiency, which means that it should do the same at lower power, or offer better points in the voltage frequency curve. The motto should be ‘do more with less’.
....

 

EDIT 2:

 

...

Another new controller to note will be for audio: the Realtek ALC1220 (and ALC1220A from ASUS). This is an upgrade over the ALC1150 and ALC898 codecs we’ve seen on most motherboards over the past couple of years, with the added benefit of having a rated 120 dBA output and 113 dBA input. Despite these results, as we’ve seen in our audio testing before, the whole audio subsystem has to be up to par in order to produce the best measurable quality. ASUS is using the ALC1220A, which I’m told is a particular variant that ASUS has requested with additional features, but we’re not told if it costs anymore.
...

 

.

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.....and there it is.

 

Microcenter. Available for pickup. A little above MSRP. Skylake prices went back up to "normal" and no longer at their holiday prices. Wondering if those prices will come back or not.

 

7700k - $330 - http://www.microcenter.com/product/472529/Core_i7-7700K_Kaby_Lake_42GHz_LGA_1151_Boxed_Processor

7600K - $230 - http://www.microcenter.com/product/472532/Core_i5-7600K_Kaby_Lake_420GHzN

 

Newegg a bit higher as usual.

 

7700k - $350 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117726

7600k - $250 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117728

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Kaby Lake 7700K @ 4.5 Ghz vs Sandy Bridge 2600K @ 4.5 Ghz
article - http://www.hardocp.com/article/2017/01/13/kaby_lake_7700k_vs_sandy_bridge_2600k_ipc_review/1

A lot of ~20% improvements shown. Not surprised. We are talking 4 tick-tock cycles between the two.

They ran the game tests at a very low resolution to highlight the CPU advantages but I think the 20% number is still useful because of (1) the few games that are CPU heavy will show more improvement than others, (2) if you up the graphics resolution+settings and drop to say 50 fps I can pretty easily imagine a big CPU upgrade bumping you to 60 fps which will not be a wildly different experiance but it is 20%.

They do mention that the new(er) chipset and the features that they bring to the table can be a selling point all on its own.

*mock hype* .....so what will Zen bring to the table?

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I hope Zen & Vega bring something to the table. The fact that Intel has given us a grand total of 20% performance increases over ~6 years is pretty sad. They need a boot in the ass to start pushing some performance chips out.

 

Because AMD seems to be focusing on LOTS of cores and threads, their single pc gaming+streaming performance looks quite a bit better than Intel at this point. I don't know how much faith I put in their tech demo for that, but the basic idea of better x264 performance because of the higher cores/threads does make sense. I'm curious to see what some third party testing reveals, but at least right now it appears like (ry)Zen is holding it's own against intel.

http://wccftech.com/amd-ryzen-zen-cpu-benchmarks-official/

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....increases over ~6 years is pretty sad. They need a boot in the ass to start pushing some performance chips out.

 

Intel cannot keep doing what they have been doing for a long time now and they have said so directly; that they will need to go in new directions.

 

source - https://www.technologyreview.com/s/601102/intel-puts-the-brakes-on-moores-law/

 

 

....

 

But Intel disclosed in a regulatory filing last month that it is slowing the pace with which it launches new chip-making technology. The gap between successive generations of chips with new, smaller transistors will widen. The transistors in Intel’s latest chips already have features as small as 14 nanometers, and it is becoming more difficult to shrink them further in a way that's cost-effective for production.

 

Intel’s strategy shift is not a complete surprise. It already pushed back the debut of its first chips with 10-nanometer transistors from the end of this year to sometime in 2017. But it is notable that the company has now admitted that wasn’t a one-off, and that it can’t keep up the pace it used to. That means Moore’s Law will slow down, too.

....

 

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basic idea of better x264 performance because of the higher cores/threads does make sense.

 

You should be more concerned about x265 performance thats starting to take over.

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Last time I checked x265 was still very niche. I can find groups that release in x265 but it also takes more CPU performance to run, not to mention I've seen some small loss of quality present in x265 encodes.

 

I don't think OBS allows for x265 streaming, and considering the added CPU overhead needed it wouldn't be the best choice unless the recording was local, and even then it would be more efficient to convert in post rather than try and record directly into x265.

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I think we're with with H.265 now where H.264 was in 2007, limited niche application but expect it to explode within a few (2-3) years as hardware support starts coming in more and more. Its a significantly lower bit rate for similar levels of quality, but if don't go to the same level of compression I'm sure its quality can be significantly than H264 at the same bit-rate.

 

Back on topic, I'm wondering if Intel really does have some hidden techs they've kept behind in case of an AMD resurgence or if they really have had a lot of issues on improving IPC numbers. My old roommate who just finished his masters in CS at Cal Poly was telling me of the engineering teams they had at Intel, and the ideas they come out of there are almost DARPA types which suggests that they probably have a ton of IPC improving ideas they just hadn't implemented yet and they've only focused on improving manufacturing over the years which is the part that they cant keep up.

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From a purely economic standpoint, Intel has had no need to push any boundaries for the last decade. They have a huge market share advantage, they have better products and better manufacturing capability.

 

Also while it's very encouraging to see the PC gaming market steadily increase, it's still not worth it to drop the money into competing for the very high end when you can outsell AMD in the mid and low tier chip markets (let alone data centers).

 

I don't see Intel going bonkers to compete with AMD, we might see them push out some slightly better high end chips if AMD manages to start being competitive but unless they get utterly smashed (nearly impossible) there's still no need to push so hard for the enthusiast space.

 

Also keep in mind that Intel is no longer just a chip company. They've been steadily transitioning into several other sectors. They bought McAfee and moved into the security space. They're building up a huge IoT/Networked devices presence. They're also pushing into the NAND space, the FPGA space and they're growing their server segment. Intel saw the writing on the wall about the same time AMD stopped being competitive and they're spending their time and money diversifying as much as possible because they know a time will come when their chips alone won't be enough to keep their business afloat.

 

Sidenote: look at this picture and ask yourself why Nvidia went bonkers this last year.

hkxUbEn.png

Spoiler alert, it wasn't because of the enthusiast GPU business.

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"Intel Announces Basin Falls: The New High-End Desktop Platform and X299 Chipset"
http://www.anandtech.com/show/11461/intel-announces-basin-falls-the-new-highend-desktop-platform-and-x299-chipset

I see they threw an ITX board in the press kit photos.
Quad channel memory (won't that be useful on ITX) but "The Kaby Lake-X processors will support dual-channel memory, whereas the Skylake-X processors support quad-channel memory.".
New socket LGA-2066.
More PCIe 3.0 lanes.
A requirement by Intel is going to cause some frustration: "All CPUs will work in all boards, but if you pair a SKL-X CPU with a KBL-X focused motherboard, the user may not be able to take advantage of all the features of the CPU they paid for. Vice versa, putting a KBL-X processor in a SKL-X focused board, a number of features that the motherboard has will be unavailable to you."

"Intel Announces Kaby Lake-X Processors: High-End Desktop Getting the Latest Microarchitecture"
http://www.anandtech.com/show/11463/intel-announces-kaby-lakex-processors-highend-desktop-getting-the-latest-microarchitecture

Two Kaby Lake CPUs Core i7-7740X and Core i5-7640X. Both 4 cores. No integrated graphics. Slightly higher clocks. Both priced identical to i7-7700k and i5-7600k. More to come later I guess with higher core counts but Skylake-X is currently the fancier looking one right now even though it's technically older.

"Secondly, Kaby Lake-X uses a thermal interface paste, rather than an indium-tin solder that we have seen on HEDT processors in the past. This raises a number of points, such that extreme overclockers will have to delid to get the best out of the processor, but also it offers a mixed message from Intel. "

"Intel Announces Skylake-X: Bringing 18-Core HCC Silicon to Consumers for $1999"
http://www.anandtech.com/show/11464/intel-announces-skylakex-bringing-18core-hcc-silicon-to-consumers-for-1999

Ok. This looks a little better. Skylake-X Core i7-7800X at $389 with 6 cores, 12 threads and turbo clock of 4.0 GHz looks somewhat interesting.

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7 hours ago, kuhla said:

"Intel Announces Basin Falls: The New High-End Desktop Platform and X299 Chipset"
http://www.anandtech.com/show/11461/intel-announces-basin-falls-the-new-highend-desktop-platform-and-x299-chipset

I see they threw an ITX board in the press kit photos.

.....

WAIT WHAT.

http://www.asrock.com/news/index.asp?ID=3625

 

Quote

Intel® X299 Mini-ITX Motherboard

Intel's X299 chipset used to be represented by a bulky EATX or ATX motherboard, because the CPU, chipset, memory and whole layout required an extra-large PCB to contain the extreme performance. ASRock's R&D team has worked very hard to defy logics and build a motherboard with a small size but huge performance, and now we have succeeded in breaking the limitations to fit the whole X299 package onto a mini-ITX form factor PCB, hence the world's first and only mini-ITX X299 motherboard is born!

20170529-4.jpg

X299E-ITX/ac is built around an X299 chipset, which unlocks the hidden performance of Intel® LGA 2066 socket CPUs, giving the overall performance a huge boost. Regardless of its tiny size, other points worth mentioning are 4 SO-DIMM memory slots, 10-layer PCB, two Intel® Gigabit LANs, dual band 2.4/5GHz 802.11ac WiFi and Bluetooth 4.2, and onboard amazing six SATA ports. Furthermore, ASRock is incredibly to make triple M.2 sockets onboard for satisfy insanely fast SSDs.

It has 4 SO-DIMM slots........ wtttttfffffffffffffffff

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I wonder just how tight the bottom dimm slot is to the gpu.  Also Notice the two daughterboards on this thing.  I give them credit for basically telling the engineers - go nuts. 

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On 5/30/2017 at 9:21 AM, kuhla said:

"Intel Announces Basin Falls: The New High-End Desktop Platform and X299 Chipset"
http://www.anandtech.com/show/11461/intel-announces-basin-falls-the-new-highend-desktop-platform-and-x299-chipset

......

"Intel Announces Kaby Lake-X Processors: High-End Desktop Getting the Latest Microarchitecture"
http://www.anandtech.com/show/11463/intel-announces-kaby-lakex-processors-highend-desktop-getting-the-latest-microarchitecture

.......

"Intel Announces Skylake-X: Bringing 18-Core HCC Silicon to Consumers for $1999"
http://www.anandtech.com/show/11464/intel-announces-skylakex-bringing-18core-hcc-silicon-to-consumers-for-1999

......

 

Mostly pre-order stuff but it some items on Newegg now:

 

LGA 2066 CPUs = https://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=Property&N=100007671 601298157 8000&IsNodeId=1&bop=And&Order=PRICED&PageSize=36

LGA 2066 Motherboards = https://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=Property&N=100007627 601299335 8000&IsNodeId=1&bop=And&Order=PRICED&PageSize=36

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