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T1no

Official VW/Audi Thread

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http://www.bbc.com/news/business-34340997

 

Volkswagen CEO just resigned. I expect this will only get worse in the coming months.

 

From source:

 

 

Its shares have tumbled some 30% since the beginning of the week in response to the scandal.

 

lol - http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=VOW3.DE+Interactive#{%22range%22:%226mo%22,%22allowChartStacking%22:true}

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That's not actually their primary listing. They're listed on several of the German exchanges and they all have slightly different pricing data.

 

This is their primary listing on the Frankfurt Exchange: http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=VOW.F+Interactive#{%22range%22:%225d%22,%22allowChartStacking%22:true}

 

Notice it's making small gains right now. I'm wondering if Volkswagen themselves are doing their best to buy back some stock and stop the fall, or if people saw such a huge drop in share price and decided that Volkswagen will climb back eventually.

 

Also as much as it's nice that their CEO resigned and is trying to take responsibility, I have a feeling some division heads and engineering heads were the real people who initially agreed to the defeat device. I personally find them dramatically more responsible than the CEO, unless the CEO had direct knowledge of their defeat device.

 

I also have a feeling that Toyota and several other brands will see some benefits from this fiasco.

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I also have a feeling that Toyota and several other brands will see some benefits from this fiasco.

 

I wonder if this will have a collateral affect on VW's non-diesel models and drive down prices across the board.

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Also as much as it's nice that their CEO resigned and is trying to take responsibility, I have a feeling some division heads and engineering heads were the real people who initially agreed to the defeat device. I personally find them dramatically more responsible than the CEO, unless the CEO had direct knowledge of their defeat device.

 

I have a general feeling that the entire VW culture is very much anti-green tech. because they simply don't believe in it. There's a general disdain I've noticed in their advertisement and corporate culture that they're dragging their feet and doing whatever they need to meet government regulations rather than actually believing in the regulations.

 

This type of culture definitely is affected by the top management such as the CEO. While the decisions to originate the defeat device most likely came from the engineers, it could not have happened without some serious management support.

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I would imagine both Ren and yourself would have a better understanding of VW's culture than I would, but I felt like they wanted to push their version of "clean" diesel rather than adopt more electric and hybrid technologies. That being said they are finally getting around to releasing their own electric models, but I can definitely understand your sentiments on their approach.

 

My main point was that I have a hard time believing we're going to see a memo/email from the CEO showing his direct knowledge of the defeat device, I do think it will reach rather high up their chain (maybe to a VP level) but to direct the blame towards the CEO seems a bit misguided. Not to mention VW now has to scramble and find someone who can help manage and direct the company while they go through this crisis.

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so blown up out of proportion.

 

and i think the ceo was like peace out suckas. i dont want to deal with this shit. and hes got nothing to do or any decision on this whole mess to begin with.

 

if they are so anti green how come they make electric vehicles ?

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I don't propose to know how much the CEO knows, we can only guess until the investigation comes out that tells how us how deep ranging this type of device was known. As to why they make some electric vehicles? Simply because they are forced to by the competition and probably government regulations/incentives.

 

Like Malaphax said, they would much rather push conventional diesel/turbo technologies than electrics. I also understand that in Germany, green tech while highly popular is extremely criticized and overdone. Their decision to go so much solar and wind so quickly that caused their local electric prices to be one of the highest in the world has put a sour taste in much of the local population. Its a clear example of how NOT to go green. That being said it makes sense to understand why the company wants the conventional technology to work so well. Now as to why they decided to go with a cheat device versus actually building a urea tank in their lower end models....thats their own SNAFU.

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Volkswagen will sack three more high ranking executives, including the head of its US division, as the company's diesel scandal deepens. Reuters reported Thursday morning that the executives are: Michael Horn, who has led VW's US operations since January 1, 2014; Ulrich Hackenberg, who oversaw Audi's research and development; and Wolfgang Hatz, who was in charge of R&D for Porsche.

....

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i hope whoever in charge next willing to man up and bring in some cool models here in the states. if it make any sense. and MT offering. ahahahhaah prob not.

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At this point Tino it has nothing to do with cool models. They're going to be in survival mode. Anything that has decent margins on it is going to be their main focus. They're most likely going to either completely stop shipping diesels here in the states or skip an entire model year, because at this point they either need the urea tank or they need to cut the performance/mileage on their diesels neither is a good scenario.

 

The fact that more executives are getting sacked tells me that this went pretty high up, and some of these people were at least partially aware of it, or directly managed people who were aware of the defeat devices.

Last I heard they've already set aside a fund of $7.3 Billion in anticipation of the recalls/buybacks/lawsuits that will be coming down the line. Seeing as the fines from the US alone could technically hit as high as $18 Billion (doubtful this will happen) I'm expecting some serious financial pain for VW. Worse yet, because Germany relies heavily on their auto exports, this will very seriously and directly affect the German economy.

 

Oddly enough, all the other German automakers believe that this won't affect sales and business will continue on as usual. I'm not sure if that's just some amazing amounts of optimism, or they're specifically sticking their heads in the sand.

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i was thinking some hail marry shit to turn this around. by sending cool, cheap stuff here. maybe not in close term i was thinking the future down the line.

no doubt they are in survival mode but i think i dont think this affects german automakers in terms of sales in the us.

the buyers/market are buying it for the premium german brand. if it does its prob minimal. back like a few years back.

 

most people who buys premium german brand knows what they want. very minimal cross shopping. if you want an bmw you most likely end up with a bmw. if anything they sway to audi or mb. vs if you re shopping for toyota you can go allover the place. if you see what i mean.

something with german brand are superior mentality that people have.

 

vw aside yeah TDI is pretty much rip here. diesel in general too.

 

iwas browsing for this

http://media.vw.com/release/907/

 

tdi is prob jammed in there not sure whats the percentage. kinda interesting.

they sell a shitload of jetta

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The number of people buying cars from chryslers, hondas, nissans, fords, GM vechicles is way way more than the number of people buying VWs. Various sites put them at like 5% of the US market.

 

So you look at what they are selling from your link, a ton of Jettas. Who are buying Jettas? People looking for a budget vehicle of a certain quality level but they are focusing on cost otherwise they would get something better and more expensive. That same group of people are the ones I would expect to look somewhere else now. That group is the "meat and potatoes" of VW USA. They need them. Not special models. Enthusiasts are enthusiasts and as usual are a small group (who would appreciate special models). They don't respond the same as everyone else to good/bad press. None of the same rules apply.

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On the subject of this fiasco, I was surprised to learn just how widespread this issue is historically and back then they had minimal fines relative to the potential fines occurring this time around:

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/24/business/international/volkswagen-test-rigging-follows-a-long-auto-industry-pattern.html?_r=0

 

Some of the other issues done in the past appear far worse than whats occurred this time around so it is kind of blown way out of proportion historically.

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I don't work with VW as a customer- they are serviced by dSPACE GmbH along with the other european automakers.

 

I'm as shocked as everyone else that such a huge oem would try something so stupid. The media is having a field day with this.

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The stupid part of that article is that Bosch sold VW this software and said "Don't use this software in vehicles you plan on actually selling, but please buy our software that skirts emissions laws."

 

Yea guys I'm sure they're buying it just because it's really nifty software.

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The stupid part of that article is that Bosch sold VW this software and said "Don't use this software in vehicles you plan on actually selling, but please buy our software that skirts emissions laws."

 

Yea guys I'm sure they're buying it just because it's really nifty software.

This happens all the time. You want to know if your vehicle will pass emissions tests- how you use that info is up to the oem. The fault is vw's if Bosch warned them already.

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What possible use would software that specifically reprograms the ECU to meet emissions standards under certain conditions, like when the driver's side door is open for testing, and then reverts back to "stock" during normal operation? I understand the idea of creating software profiles, if you were testing various ECU profiles to see which one was the best mix of fuel efficiency and still met clean air standard. I could even understand having different ECU profiles for cars sold in different regions, which would be stupid, but I could at least understand it.

 

I do not understand how software that specificly and dynamically changes the operation of the vehicle during a narrow set of conditions would be created or sold with any other intention than to skirt emissions laws. If Bosch just made the different ECU profile part of the software that would be fine, but the fact that this software is specifically set to activate under testing conditions means it was designed or deployed with ill intent. I don't know who touched it last nor do I care, but the fact that Bosch is coming out against VW sounds like damage control more than anything.

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Different engine operating modes? Say you need different ECU for better traction during snow conditions, Sport Mode, Eco mode, etc.

Need help debugging your ECU while testing and don't want to reprogram every time? That's another legitimate use.

 

Tons of reasons on why you'd want different profiles for entirely normal and legal reasons...

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