Jump to content
 
Sign in to follow this  
T1no

Official VW/Audi Thread

Recommended Posts

As I said, I could buy the different profile excuse, but why was one profile set to only take place when the driver side door was open? If bosch didn't program that particular profile, than that's fine. If they did program that one, then I would lay at least some blame at their feet. Also shouldn't the car be capable of meeting emissions standards during all driving conditions? These profiles were just being used on testing vehicles they were clearly placed on production models.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Scapegoat ahoy!

 

source - http://www.latimes.com/business/autos/la-fi-hy-vw-hearing-20151009-story.html

 

 

A top Volkswagen executive on Thursday blamed a handful of rogue software engineers for the company's emissions-test cheating scandal...
....

"This was a couple of software engineers who put this in for whatever reason," Michael Horn, VW's U.S. chief executive, told a House subcommittee hearing. "To my understanding, this was not a corporate decision. This was something individuals did."

Horn, chief executive of Volkswagen Group of America, revealed that three VW employees had been suspended in connection with software that detects and fools emissions testing equipment in the company's diesel vehicles.
....

The exact number of engineers the company blames remained unclear. Horn said both "couple" and three, then said under questioning that he did not yet know the exact number. Regardless, the claim that such a small number of people could have pulled off such a massive fraud brought immediate skepticism from lawmakers and industry experts.

 

Riiiiiiiight. Just a couple of engineers. Riiiiiiiiight.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What possible use would software that specifically reprograms the ECU to meet emissions standards under certain conditions, like when the driver's side door is open for testing, and then reverts back to "stock" during normal operation? I understand the idea of creating software profiles, if you were testing various ECU profiles to see which one was the best mix of fuel efficiency and still met clean air standard. I could even understand having different ECU profiles for cars sold in different regions, which would be stupid, but I could at least understand it.

 

I do not understand how software that specificly and dynamically changes the operation of the vehicle during a narrow set of conditions would be created or sold with any other intention than to skirt emissions laws. If Bosch just made the different ECU profile part of the software that would be fine, but the fact that this software is specifically set to activate under testing conditions means it was designed or deployed with ill intent. I don't know who touched it last nor do I care, but the fact that Bosch is coming out against VW sounds like damage control more than anything.

 

 

Different engine operating modes? Say you need different ECU for better traction during snow conditions, Sport Mode, Eco mode, etc.

Need help debugging your ECU while testing and don't want to reprogram every time? That's another legitimate use.

 

Tons of reasons on why you'd want different profiles for entirely normal and legal reasons...

 

 

As I said, I could buy the different profile excuse, but why was one profile set to only take place when the driver side door was open? If bosch didn't program that particular profile, than that's fine. If they did program that one, then I would lay at least some blame at their feet. Also shouldn't the car be capable of meeting emissions standards during all driving conditions? These profiles were just being used on testing vehicles they were clearly placed on production models.

 

I think the case here is that bosch is not supplying VW with the engine controller, but software to evaluate the engine controller for emissions testing. So in other words, bosch is providing VW with software/hardware in order to evaluate the engine's performance in a simulated emissions test - they are not programming the controller. VW is programming the engine controller themselves, which is why the fault should lie with them for implementing the logic to detect if the vehicle is in an emissions test environment.

 

Scapegoat ahoy!

 

source - http://www.latimes.com/business/autos/la-fi-hy-vw-hearing-20151009-story.html

 

 

A top Volkswagen executive on Thursday blamed a handful of rogue software engineers for the company's emissions-test cheating scandal...

....

 

"This was a couple of software engineers who put this in for whatever reason," Michael Horn, VW's U.S. chief executive, told a House subcommittee hearing. "To my understanding, this was not a corporate decision. This was something individuals did."

 

Horn, chief executive of Volkswagen Group of America, revealed that three VW employees had been suspended in connection with software that detects and fools emissions testing equipment in the company's diesel vehicles.

....

 

The exact number of engineers the company blames remained unclear. Horn said both "couple" and three, then said under questioning that he did not yet know the exact number. Regardless, the claim that such a small number of people could have pulled off such a massive fraud brought immediate skepticism from lawmakers and industry experts.

 

Riiiiiiiight. Just a couple of engineers. Riiiiiiiiight.

 

I won't say its "impossible" but either VW is running a joke of a company to let 3 software engineers code that logic into a production ECU (for years, apparently) OR they're trying to pin the blame on the little guy. (Im guessing its the latter)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yea, if 3 "rogue" engineers were capable of modifying the ECU and getting it past any testing and quality control for multiple years without anyone else noticing, I would never want to sit in a VW car again let alone drive or purchase one. That would imply such drastically negligent policies on VW's part it might lead to even larger lawsuits than just admitting some managers knew about the defeat devices.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Two-thirds of Germans say they still trust Volkswagen despite the emissions rigging scandal that has engulfed the carmaker, according to a survey.

Sixty-five percent of respondents in a poll conducted earlier this month thought the scandal had been exaggerated and that VW still built excellent cars, according to the management consultancy Prophet, which carried out the research.

Three quarters said they would still buy a VW car if they liked the vehicle and the price, and 63% expected the affair to be largely forgotten within a year.

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/oct/20/two-thirds-of-germans-still-trust-volkswagen-after-emissions-scandal

 

I knew the German loyalty was strong, but that seems excessive even to me. I don't think VW will have issues selling cars in Germany, but exporting them to other countries might prove a bigger issue. I'm still waiting to see what the recall will look like here in the US. In Europe the recall is mandatory and will most likely be pretty costly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

yea im curious what they will do with the tdi here.

i dont understand how they work anyway would urea tank be the easy / cost effective fix ?

 

i also confused because the new 2015 does have the tank and they still recall the thing. i guess its simply because they have the software.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From what I understand, some of the newer models have a small and almost completely sealed off urea tank present (like the 2015 model you mentioned Tino). But they will most likely have to now make it part of warranty work and regular servicing that it's topped up. I expect they'll also need to flash a new ECU profile that doesn't have the defeat software running and will boost the amount of urea used. I also expect owners will receive either free or substantially cheaper servicing on their urea refills.

 

For the older models... they're in a tough spot. I doubt it will be easy to design and install a urea tank and retrofit older models, I also doubt they could get away with simply flashing the ECU and telling people to go along their merry way. My bet is they'll be some sort of buyout option or a decent sized cash refund on the possible mpg loss that people will experience after the ECU update. Dealers might be incentivized to offer a larger reduction in price on people trading in their old diesels for new models.

 

We have substantially fewer VW diesels on our roads, and my bet is that we may enact a much harsher recall than Europe. Some regulators are going to try and make an example out of VW.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

heres the 2015 jetta sportwagen i wasnt able to find pic for a golf but its not sealed.

essentially like bmw system. you can top it off. not sure how often.

also the 2015 golf tdi doesnt have independent suspension because of it i think its torsion beam. ben mk6 still do. and he doesn't have the tank.

soo pre 2015 tdi the tank gotta go somewhere LOL. unless they take out the whole suspension geometry and put a tank. ahahaha costly.

 

2015volkswagengolfsportwagen-012.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

its listing 2.0L instead of 2.0T

 

if its including 2.0t they should just stop selling cars LOL

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

its listing 2.0L instead of 2.0T

 

if its including 2.0t they should just stop selling cars LOL

 

source - http://www.cnbc.com/2015/11/04/the-associated-press-vw-recalls-92000-cars-in-us-power-assisted-brakes-can-fail.html

 

 

....

 

The recall includes the .... 1.8-liter and 2-liter turbocharged four-cylinder gasoline engines.

....

 

I saw some people commenting that if anyone thinks this will lead to some discounts/deals that they are wrong because dealerships will probably raise prices on existing stock to fix profits falling from less volume as in make the "loyalists" pay for all the "casuals" lost.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think I saw that auto sales figures for last month came out and VW sales were flat:

http://www.autoblog.com/2015/11/03/october-2015-auto-sales-by-the-numbers/

 

I'm not sure how Dealers will approach current sales strategies, I do think that the number of recalls will affect the inventory levels they have, but I'm not sure of much beyond that. It's approaching year end, and generally the strategy has been: sell everything on the lot so we can get our monthly/yearly bonuses and clear space for next year's stock. I wonder if the sales might not be as good if they're already sitting on less inventory because of this mess.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

http://www.vwvortex.com/news/volkswagen-news/volkswagen-officially-announces-details-of-2-0l-tdi-goodwill-package/

 

Volkswagen of America has officially announced details of their 2.0L TDI Goodwill Package, the first step in working to restore the trust of owners and the general public. The program, launching later today, will consist of the following-
  • $500 Volkswagen Prepaid Visa® Loyalty Card
  • $500 Volkswagen Dealership Card
  • No-charge 24-hour Roadside Assistance for three years

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While it's nice to see VW trying to reach out and offer incentives for TDI owners, this doesn't begin to solve their issues.

I'm not expecting any of their executives to serve jail time (because it never happens) but I am expecting that the regulatory agencies will force VW to offer quite a bit more than what they are now.

 

Additionally I would be seriously concerned about taking an offer like this, not just because I think better offers will be coming later, but also because it might preclude you from joining class action suits against VW.

I'm still waiting on the US regulatory agencies to announce their plans for VW.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

http://www.autoblog.com/2015/11/25/vw-diesel-fixes-germany/?ncid=edlinkusauto00000016

 

The 2.0 litre engines will get a software update. The pure labour time for this measure will be around half an hour.

Thanks to advances in engine development and improved simulation of currents inside complex air intake systems, in combination with software optimisation geared towards this, it has been possible to produce a relatively simple and customer-friendly measure.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

source - [same]

 

....

 

The automaker's goal is for these repairs is to meet emissions standards and have no detrimental effects on fuel economy or performance.

 

....

 

orly

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Either the car is going to lose horsepower or fuel efficiency. There is no possible way they can decrease emissions without affecting one of those, otherwise they would have done that instead of cheating on emissions standards in the first place.

 

My bet is that even if there is zero impact to fuel efficiency, you will see multiple people claiming their car is performing worse. Confirmation Bias everywhere.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

what do you think about the Egolf Andreus

 

https://www.vw.com/models/e-golf/

not bad $21,495 after rebate

 

 

 

i also notice rebates left and right.

 

1500 if you owned a vw

1000 if you owned any car to vw

and 0% apr LOL

 

inventory slow moving looks like

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

what do you think about the Egolf Andreus

 

I think it's neat...... if you have a place to charge it everyday..... like a house.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...