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kuhla

AMD Ryzen (Zen)

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I'm interested in seeing Id and what they push out for their new games like quake champions: http://techreport.com/news/31799/id-software-talks-about-ryzen

I expect that as more companies start to make use of better resource management and proper usage of multi-thread multi-core we'll see graphs like the one you posted change.  The fact that there's a linear trend from 2-6 core is already a good trend, so at this point we can hope that the ultra-high end core/thread setups will see some of those same performance gains. 

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This is mostly a note for myself because I keep having to "re-find" this information when I want to see if there is any news about it:

Gigabyte AM4 ITX AB350N-Gaming Wifi

PPBFeHs.jpg


https://www.google.com/search?q="AB350N-Gaming"&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

ASRock X370 Mini-ITX

ydyQpqr.jpg
 

https://www.google.com/search?q="ASRock+X370+Mini-ITX"&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

Both "coming soon".

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"AMD Announces Ryzen AGESA 1.0.0.6 Update: Enables Memory Clocks Up To DDR4-4000"
source - http://www.anandtech.com/show/11447/amd-announces-ryzen-agesa-1006-update

I was going to copy and paste parts of it but then I read all of it and just about all of it is relevant. This is a nice list of changes for multiple things. I kind of want to see some new benchmarks once this code is available across the board since I can imagine it making some small differences.

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"The Definitive AMD Ryzen 7 Real-World Gaming Guide"
link - https://www.hardocp.com/article/2017/05/26/definitive_amd_ryzen_7_realworld_gaming_guide/1


AMD Ryzen 7 1700X @ 4.0GHz + 16GB of DDR4 at 2933MHz
vs
Intel i7 2600K @ 4.5GHz + 16GB of DDR3 at 2133MHz
vs
Intel i7 7700K @ 5.0GHz + 16GB of DDR4 at 3600MHz

Basically, for gaming at 1440p with a single GPU, there is not much difference between all three.

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On 5/24/2017 at 9:48 AM, kuhla said:

This is mostly a note for myself because I keep having to "re-find" this information when I want to see if there is any news about it:

 

....

https://www.google.com/search?q="AB350N-Gaming"&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

ASRock X370 Mini-ITX

ydyQpqr.jpg
 

https://www.google.com/search?q="ASRock+X370+Mini-ITX"&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

Both "coming soon".

I'm double posting. More news tomorrow.

 

source - http://www.asrock.com/news/index.asp?ID=3625

Quote

AMD AM4 Ryzen Mini-ITX Motherboards

Packing all the power of AMD's new AM4 series into an astonishingly compact space-saving Mini-ITX footprint, ASRock will also be launching and demonstrating the new Fatal1ty X370 Gaming-ITX/ac and the Fatal1ty AB350 Gaming-ITX/ac. Apart from the chilling killer design, two boards come with two HDMI outputs, 802.11ac WiFi solution, 7.1-CH with Realtek ALC 1220 codec, heatsinks that effectively improve heat dissipation and promotes overall performance.

20170529-6.jpg

Rear I/O looks a bit sparse. No DVI of VGA though so that's nice.

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article - http://www.anandtech.com/show/11591/amd-launches-ryzen-pro-cpus-enhanced-security-longer-warranty-better-quality

Quote

 A superset to the standard Ryzen chips, the PRO chips have the same feature set as other Ryzen devices, but also offer enhanced security, 24 months availability, a longer warranty and promise to feature better chip quality.

....

The Zen microarchitecture features two important technologies: Secure Memory Encryption (SME) and Secure Encrypted Virtualization (SEV) that protect data in DRAM using a dedicated AES-128 engine.

....

First off, the Ryzen PRO platforms support the DASH management protocol, allowing PRO systems to be remotely managed using tools based on this industry standard (and typically developed by the individual computer vendors).

....

Specifically, AMD is promising that the Ryzen PRO family will offer an 18 month window for platform stability and 24 month of processor availability.

....

The reason why AMD offers extended warranty for its business CPUs (apart from the fact that its customers demand this) is because it uses wafers with highest yields/least amount of defective parts to build the Ryzen Pro.

....

I assume there will be a cost premium but I don't see why these wouldn't be considered the "best" versions mainly due to the better yields. Binning may not matter as much and features would probably be supported on most consumer boards.

 

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"The AMD Ryzen Threadripper 1950X and 1920X Review: CPUs on Steroids"

article - http://www.anandtech.com/show/11697/the-amd-ryzen-threadripper-1950x-and-1920x-review

For the consumer/enthusiast I think the conclusion is pretty much the same as it was for the Ryzen consumer models: AMD can get you more cores for less money which may give you more value, depending on your use, but for many applications Intel is still performance king.

I was a little surprised at the Creator Mode vs Game Mode system they had to implement to support some games (example given in article is DiRT) which apparently will not run in a system with more than 20 threads. I didn't know such a problem existed.

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I think that compatibility issue with certain programs/games is fairly edge case.  I wonder if that's because Dirt uses a proprietary engine (EGO) which simply wasn't designed to scale to that level.  I also wonder why it wouldn't default to 16 cores or just not make use of the additional cores rather than completely failing to run.  Seems like a weird solution to handle what I would consider a software issue. 

Still glad to see AMD is making a decent showing in the high end space.  I hope they can keep it up and that Intel doesn't sit on their ass, although if recent announcements are anything to go by they're actually in panic mode, which is causing it's own issues. 

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Quote

Overclocker Roman Hartung (der8auer) discusses his delidding of a Threadripper CPU in a new video: he confirms that AMD is, in fact, using four functional Ryzen dies to create a single Threadripper chip. Being that AMD’s EPYC server processors are made the exact same way, der8auer speculates that the company has plans for a 32-core desktop processor (the choice of using four dies was intentional).

https://hardforum.com/threads/threadripper-delidding-uncovers-epyc-in-disguise-32-core-desktop-cpu-in-the-works.1944012/

AHHAHAHAHA What?  I mean I knew that their process was silly but are they just binning EPYC cpu's for threadripper?  This sounds so... AMD.  Every time I hear of AMD doing super weird shit like this I imagine the Russian space program engineers - "Hey vladimir we can build a small rocket engine that works very well, but how do we build a bigger rocket?" 'That is easy ivan, we just attach more rocket engines'

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Have you seen the recent Soyuz rockets? Its almost as much as the N1.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soyuz_(rocket_family)#/media/File:Soyuz_rocket_engines.jpg

 

SpaceX kinda follows a similar design with their Falcon Series...

 

Kinda crazy with the 4 die design though. Now that caching strategy makes so much more sense.

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With the socket staying the same, I hope the chipset support comes along for the ride and my board can stay relevant for a few years.

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Hey... about that chipset support:

Quote

AMD spoke with its partners and plans to launch in February 2018 an upgrade version of its Ryzen series processors built using a 12nm low-power (12LP) process at Globalfoundries.

The corresponding chipsets, the 400 series, will also become available in March 2018 with X470- or B450-based motherboards to be the first to hit the store shelves. The chipsets are still designed by ASMedia and its orders for the chipsets are expected to grow dramatically starting January 2018.

http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/amd-to-launch-12nm-ryzen-in-february.html

I'm glad they're not doing the super dumb stuff like intel swapping out their sockets but the new chipsets sounds... crappy.  I mean ryzen launched less than 1 year ago and they're already scheduling an upgrade with a new chipset.  I guess we may never see m-atx x370 boards.  I'm sort of expecting mobo manufacturers to just pump and dump whatever they can on the newer stuff.  Hopefully this time the mobo manufacturers have enough lead time to design boards and stable bios so we're not playing the "why is my bios updating more often than my gpu driver" game. 

I don't want to look too far ahead into the future - but I have a feeling I'll be pushing for an upgrade when ryzen 2 comes out. 

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"Memory Scaling on Ryzen 7 with Team Group's Night Hawk RGB"
article - https://www.anandtech.com/show/11857/memory-scaling-on-ryzen-7-with-team-groups-night-hawk-rgb

Still glad I went for the 3200 cas14 but the article appears to indicate that the diminishing results are around 2933-3000 cas16 they tested so there is some opportunity for better value around that speed. Maybe even 2800. Opens up some 32GB options too. The statement that Ryzen is sensitive to memory speeds is still true. That one handbrake test and the winrar test were both 15% difference between 2400 and 3200. I don't think I would be comfortable recommending memory slower than 2800 to someone building for Ryzen.

Newegg filtered list: https://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=Property&N=100007611 600535716 600532727 601302851 600531807 600327642 600006072 8000 4814 600521526 600546709 600528730&IsNodeId=1&bop=And&Order=PRICE&PageSize=96

Prices are still high.

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Yea the 32gb kits are mostly $300+ which is probably too expensive to reasonably recommend. 
As you've previously mentioned, caring about the timings is one thing, but the bigger issue might be samsung b die vs hynix.  I've heard the problems with hynix are mostly fixed, but I haven't read into the issue that much, and I'd rather just dodge that bullet altogether. 
Sidenote, the 32gb kits supposedly get faster speeds because of the dual rank memory being a bit faster on ryzen (or is that universal?), although I have no idea if that's old news at this point either. 

This older reddit thread is what I was briefly skimming and referring to: https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/62vp2g/clearing_up_any_samsung_bdie_confusion_eg_on/

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45 minutes ago, Malaphax said:

......because of the dual rank memory being a bit faster on ryzen (or is that universal?), although I have no idea if that's old news at this point either. 

This is universal and has been true for a long time. That being said, there is some debate on whether the difference just show up in benchmarks.

Then there is the single sided, double sided situation.....

It's a deep rabbit hole and I'm glad that none of it makes a huge impact these days.

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AMD Ryzen 5 2400G & Ryzen 3 2200G Review, HardwareCanucks, Page 15 - http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/77176-amd-ryzen-5-2400g-ryzen-3-2200g-review-15.html

AMD Ryzen 5 2400G, $169, Microcenter instore - http://www.microcenter.com/product/503184/Ryzen_5_2400G_Quad_Core_AM4_Boxed_Processor_with_Wraith_Stealth_Cooler

So if you were building a new PC, are strapped for cash, casually play a couple of popular games at 1080p then the 2400G seems like a pretty reasonable choice combined with some decent DDR4 memory.

Of course if someone is willing to look at used parts and raise their budget just a little bit then much better options open up but that is not for everyone.

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More to your point.  Intel does not have a competing integrated graphics option. 

I think this allows AMD to provide an alternative in the low(er) end market. 

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As I realized my usage patterns have changed significantly, I'm seriously considering a Ryzen chip for my next build. I've also recently been experiencing odd CMOS resets on my system (BIOS losing all configuration upon boot) regularly so I might be due for an upgrade sooner rather than later.

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I'm sure Kuhla could shed more light on this, but it sounds like there are vulnerabilities being made public that specifically exploit Ryzen's secure processor chip and Asmedia components. 
https://wccftech.com/report-alleges-amd-ryzen-epyc-cpus-suffer-13-fatal-security-flaws/
https://www.amdflaws.com/

Quote

CTS-Labs has given AMD 24 hours to respond to its report, which is substantially short of the 90 day grace period normally given to hardware makers to address security issues.

My gut reaction is this is a PR hitjob.  It's a small Israeli firm that suddenly comes out with info on "VULNERABILITY ONLY IN AMD PRODUCTS!!!" and what little I see about these vulnerabilities all require physical root access or even flashing bios. 

/r/netsec post about this:
https://www.reddit.com/r/netsec/comments/844ok3/severe_security_advisory_on_amd_processors/

EDIT

Yet one more reason I believe this is a PR hitjob.  I just stumbled across this on /r/securityanalysis - pdf warning - https://viceroyresearch.files.wordpress.com/2018/03/amd-the-obituary-13-mar-2018.pdf
It's a "research" document talking about this recently addressed vulnerability.  This thing is 25 pages of pure bullshit.  I know some analysts are fast, but I think there's not just some absurd bias but some complete nonsense.  Here's the quote that's bolded on page 1:

Quote

We believe AMD is worth $0.00 and will have no choice but to file for chapter 11 (bankruptcy) in order to effectively deal with the repercussions of recent discoveries. 

Uh huh, what's worse is the "research" paper flat out lies about the vulnerabilities.  It's talking about remote access.  After searching the whitepaper for the keyword remote, I can't find anything talking about remote access.  I can find plenty talking about either flashing bios (physical access) or local elevated admin access (lol, ok) to make use of these "vulnerabilities." 

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6 hours ago, Malaphax said:

I'm sure Kuhla could shed more light on this.....

I have not had any time to really look into this yet but this alone....

Quote

The researchers gave AMD less than 24 hours to look at the vulnerabilities and respond before publishing the report.

....is a very bad look for the researchers, no matter whether their discoveries are legit or not. If I was part of that team, I would be very worried about my reputation inside the security research community.

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Here's an interview with anandtech and the CTS Labs people:
https://www.anandtech.com/show/12536/our-interesting-call-with-cts-labs

I'm glad to see anandtech calling them out on some bullshit.  These are technical exploits but the chance of them affecting large enterprise environments are very very small because of the need for physical access and local admin privileges. 

I still strongly believe this is a PR hitjob and these guys are trying their best to make a name and get on someone else's payroll.  I also have huge issues with the fact that Viceroy had a goddamn 25 page pdf ready to rumble at the same time this stuff was made public.  I strongly suspect that both of these bad actors were shorting AMD hard and attempting to draw some serious negative attention. 

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I believe this will be the last time we heart of the AMD exploits posted by CTS.  This is an official post from AMD which shows that the exploits are verified and that they're taking steps to remedy the situation. 
It also correctly mentions that all of these attacks need admin access in order to be utilized. 

https://community.amd.com/community/amd-corporate/blog/2018/03/21/initial-amd-technical-assessment-of-cts-labs-research

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