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kuhla

AMD Ryzen (Zen)

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On 3/27/2017 at 11:46 AM, kuhla said:

cmhSKyI.png

 

I reference that image often enough. Re-posting it.

 

Bumping this thread back up because of an offline discussion about balancing latency vs frequency.

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This is a very similar resource that's specifically designed to find samsung B-die memory kits. 

https://benzhaomin.github.io/bdiefinder/

As a note: Samsung has stopped producing B-die, it has been replaced by A-die.  Also as most of the new ryzen 3000 series and x570 boards support much higher memory clock rates, I suspect that the highly memory sensitive nature of the ryzen 1000 series has been taken care of, most people on ryzen 2000 series have not mentioned the CPUs being as picky about memory.   

The key number to keep in mind is the "average access time" in nanoseconds.  Top tier memory kits tend to be ~8.34ns but kuhla's graph is highlighting a more reasonable ~10ns as a ceiling for good memory. 

References:
Basic formula is - ( cas latency / speed mhz ) * 2 * 1000 = average access time in nanoseconds
ex: 3600mhz cas 15 - (15/3600)*2*1000 = 8.34ns | this would be top tier memory
Super in depth article: https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/3333-memory-timings-defined-cas-latency-trcd-trp-tras

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Is there any particular reason why a company makes two types of RAM with one specifically marketed for AMD vs. Intel? What specific optimizations are required by Ryzen? All latency/specifications look similar from the spec sheet.

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I believe it has to do with XMP profiles.  XMP is an intel specific technology, and some RAM have multiple profiles associated with them.  Certain RAM might be specifically labeled as AMD RAM because they've laid out the XMP profiles to work well with AMD motherboards.  As I understand it you can still hand enter clocks/timings to achieve the rated speeds when using the "incorrect" ram but it might not work as cleanly as something right out of the box.  It might also be that this particular ram is samsung B-die which had a much better success rate with ryzen 1000 series CPUs/motherboards.

Honestly I would just stick with whatever is on the qualified vendor list of a given motherboard - that guarantees you the ram will work on that particular board and at that particular speed. 

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article - https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-ryzen-9-3950x-to-become-worlds-first-16-core-gaming-cpu

 

Quote

According to a slide we received today, AMD will launch Ryzen 9 3950X as world’s first 16-core mainstream processor. The slide basically  “confirms” the speculation which began at Ryzen 3000 announcement at Computex.

AMD Ryzen 9 3950X would utilize all available cores from both dies. It would preserve the TDP from Ryzen 9 3900X which features 12 cores but at the cost of a lower base clock. This AM4 processor is supposedly a 105W TDP part.

The 3950X features a boost clock of 4.7 GHz, the highest from all Ryzen 3000 CPUs. The pricing and availability date have not yet been confirmed.

 

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Ryzen 3950X is $750 and launches in September.  They're absolutely binning these, and that's probably why they're pushing it back a few months to make sure they can build up stock. 

Article with more details: https://www.gamersnexus.net/news-pc/3481-amd-navi-rx-5700-xt-specs-overclocking-architecture

Seems like the 3900X is going to be a much better performance/value.  Gut feeling right now is to go for the 3900X since my computer is slowly dying and I'm not really sure about it lasting until September, especially considering the $250 premium for the 16 core binned CPU. 

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10 minutes ago, Malaphax said:

Gut feeling right now is to go for the 3900X........ 

You have already heard some of my feelings on this. Without a justified use-case for 12c/24t, this seems like a waste of $100. In addition to saving money, stepping down to the 3800x would get you 100 Mhz more base clock which is admittedly quite small but at least it would technically benefit you. Even with the incremental improvements to turbo that AMD has been making, base clock is something I always expect to be more valuable.

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image.png

I'll be waiting for benchmarks to determine what the hell I'm getting.  My napkin math looks something like this:
3800X is 50% more cores for 25% more price over the 3800X.  The 3950X is 33% more cores for 50% more price over the 3900X.  I understand it's a flagship part, but combined with the 2 month delayed launch that doesn't really sit well with me.  I could theoretically build a new PC with a 3900X in the month of July instead of having to wait until September for more cores that I'm not sure I would make the best use of, not to mention pay a substantial premium for the part. 

Anantech has a nice in depth article on the 3000 series and I'm seeing several site mention that the May 2019 windows update is going to bring better performance to higher core count AMD cpus.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/14525/amd-zen-2-microarchitecture-analysis-ryzen-3000-and-epyc-rome

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I bought 8c/16t to try and future-proof myself. I'm two years into ownership (August 2017) and the number of times I think I actually took advantage of all those threads I think I can count on fingers and toes (actually probably just fingers). My most common usage is web browsing, downloading, gaming (barely scales beyond 6c/12t), office type work, streaming and an occasional virtual machine. I have a gut feeling your usage is pretty similar.

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Here's a thread that breaks down the current X570 motherboard offerings and rumored MSRP prices.  My rough notes so far:
Asus certainly charges a premium at this point for their products it's not entirely undeserved.  Their UEFI/BIOS is still considered a gold standard and their board quality is really solid as well. 
Gigabyte has been quietly shifting into my #2 position with another solid UEFI/BIOS and strong board quality.  They don't have Asus' price premium, although they're not exactly cheap either. 
MSI isn't a vendor I'd look too seriously at, I've read some of their recent x470 board reviews and they're not bad but they're also not great either.  Unless an amazing review comes out I'd probably give them a skip. 
Asrock
this is the cost/performance king, they also tend to offer solid hardware but their software/UEFI isn't particularly inspiring.  You run into super weird stuff like their x570 Taichi having t-topology instead of daisychain DRAM routing like every other manufacturer.

I'm still waiting for proper reviews before I make any final decisions but I suspect we'll see the very top end (or at least the boards in the top 3 of the product stack) hogging up the early reviews from various tech outlets. 

 

 

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I think you should make Realtek ALC1220 or ALC1200 the minimum as far as integrated sound.

I did not look at all of them linked in that post but I did see one of the gigabyte boards had ALC887. That is ancient. That would be a deal breaker to me.

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9 hours ago, kuhla said:

I think you should make Realtek ALC1220 or ALC1200 the minimum as far as integrated sound.

I did not look at all of them linked in that post but I did see one of the gigabyte boards had ALC887. That is ancient. That would be a deal breaker to me.

I just run an external sound card.....like everyone else from the 90s....GAWD!

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Price Speculation from r/amd also good list of mobo's. I'm probably considering an ASRock or Gigabyte mobo. Probably in the $150-250 range because expensssive. Also would like WiFi....

 

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