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Intel Coffee Lake


kuhla

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ot to be confused with the other stuff Intel stuff I posted today.... this is the non-enthusiast stuff....

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One source. Some details. Not that there are a lot.

http://wccftech.com/intel-x299-skylake-x-kaby-lake-x-z370-coffee-lake-s-z390-cannonlake-cpu-details/

New chipset: Z370
New socket: LGA 1151 V2 (the V2 part very important)
i7 will be 6 core (and assuming 12 threads)

Winter 2017?

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  • 2 months later...

article 1 - http://www.anandtech.com/show/11698/intel-finalizes-skylakex-processor-specifications-18cores-44-ghz-165w-on-september-25th

This is about Skylake-X but I think the fact that it is just getting "finalized publicly" now and with release dates that start on Aug 28 and then go forward from there I think that Coffee Lake is probably all the way into next year now even though everyone keeps saying it will be retail "before the end of the year".

article 2 - https://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/3015231/intel-will-begin-production-of-8th-gen-coffee-lake-cpus-this-month

This is an example of what I mean "...according to a series of leaked slides which claim that the parts could arrive as soon as August." Really? Either it's much farther away from that or Intel is planning many launches in a short period of time that overlap each other in price and usecase.

I dunno.

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  • 5 weeks later...

Looks like it's October 5th launch date - according to rumors anyway. 

http://wccftech.com/intel-coffee-lake-8th-gen-desktop-cpus-pre-order/

https://videocardz.com/newz/rumor-intel-i7-8700k-to-launch-on-5th-october

It's nice to see their top end 8700k at 6/12 cores/threads but they're still sitting behind ryzen on that count.  It also looks like it'll be a little more expensive than the ryzen 1700x which is what I expected.  Intel still seems to think they can demand a premium, I'm curious if the performance will reflect that or if this will just end up making ryzen look even more appealing.  I have a feeling anything 1440p+ or heavy threading will still go to ryzen and some minor single core improvements and 1080p gaming will still stick with Intel for the foreseeable future. 

Sidenote - AMD is doing well and has overtaken intel in CPU sales at a major german e-tailer. http://wccftech.com/amd-cpu-sales-overtake-intel-first-time-decade-germanys-largest-e-tailer/

I also saw some weird stuff from the AMD developers about Ryzen and Zen 2, suggesting that Zen 2 will be focused on improving IPC and clocks.  I'm their roadmap also says that zen 2 will be on 7nm so I'm not sure how that all shakes out, especially considering most CPU cycles are 18 months - not really sure what the comment about having a "good 2018" is about unless they plan on releasing incremental updates to the current ryzen lineups, like a 1750 or 1850 with better clocks? That might piss some people off. 
http://wccftech.com/amd-talks-ryzen-zen-2-ipc-clock-speed/

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  • 2 weeks later...

While the new 6/12 coffee lake processors are launching in less than a month, the future holds so much more. 

Ice Lake is the z390 chipset powered 8/16 intel platform and will be on the 10nm process due out 2H'18. 
Source: http://wccftech.com/intel-10nm-ice-lake-8-core-16-thread-mainstream-cpu-leak/

Here's the roadmap
Intel-300-Series-8th-Gen-Chipset-Roadmap

And the comparison chart to try and keep it all straight:
29DPqoi.png

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"Prices of Intel’s Coffee Lake-S CPUs Published: $400 for Core i7-8700K?"

source - https://www.anandtech.com/show/11843/prices-of-intels-coffee-lakes-cpus-published-400-for-core-i78700k

If that headline ends up being true then that is too much. The 1700x and especially the 1700 are regularly getting sales that drop them just under the $300 mark and have been for a month or two now.

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article - https://www.anandtech.com/show/11869/intel-announces-8th-generation-coffee-lake-hex-core-desktop-processors

i7-8700K, $359, 6 cores/12 threads, 3.8GHz base frequency
i5-8600K, $257, 6 cores/6 threads, 3.6GHz base frequency

Not a whole lot new there that was not already known. Nice that it is official though.

I think the 8600K might find a nice niche for itself if you have the right use-case and plan to overclock and push it up to maybe the same base frequency as the 7700K (4.2GHz) which I imagine would not be hard.

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Unless you're running into computer issues I don't really see the need for you to upgrade.

I really dislike the current option from Intel.  They couldn't match AMD on cores (but they will later next year) while I expect their single core performance to be slightly better than the AMD offerings, I'm not sure that's worth it considering the prices they're asking for.  While their motherboard chipset is more mature than AMD's it's not great knowing that this is going to be a short generation as they push out the 390 chipset in a year alongside the 8/16 chips. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Here's the Anandtech review: https://www.anandtech.com/show/11859/the-anandtech-coffee-lake-review-8700k-and-8400-initial-numbers

It seems like the 8700k performs very well and offers some reasonable competition to ryzen, flat out beating it in most single core applications and 1080p gaming performance.  The reviewer mentions that at this point windows 10 does some weird stuff occasionally activating extra cores and thereby dropping the turbo frequency at somewhat random intervals.  There's also the issue of applications and games not fully using multicore systems let alone handling 12+ threads. 

Also, I think it's fair to get upset with both Intel and AMD regarding their sockets/chipset naming conventions.  They both decided to use the same socket but different chipsets which means that not only are new chips not backwards compatible but old chips are absolutely not compatible with new motherboards, regardless of everything being 1151/AM4.  I feel like this is needless confusion and a bit of a disaster.  It would have been easy enough to label them as v2 or do something to properly differentiate the "old" sockets/chipsets from the new ones. 

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Newegg ( https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117827 ) is at least listing it as "LGA 1151 (300 Series)" socket to help avoid some of the confusion but it's not helping. Really needs to have a new name like "1151v2" like I thought they were going to do.

The all-core 4.3 GHz turbo out of the box is probably helping a lot. Still higher than any Ryzen is getting to even overclocked.

Performance graphs were pretty by the numbers.

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https://www.anandtech.com/show/11860/z370-motherboards-asus-asrock-ecs-evga-biostar-msi-gigabyte

Quote

 

....

So the chips are different, especially with the support for hex-core processors, but that is not a big story. What is a big story is as mentioned at the top of the page - the physical socket is identical to the last platform: both use LGA1151, with processors that have equal notches in the packages, making it very easy to place the wrong CPU in the wrong motherboard.

Whoever thought this was a good idea at Intel needs to be fired. If the new CPU was labeled as LGA1153, still had 1151 pins but slightly different notches, this wouldn’t be an issue because users would not be able to misplace (and potentially damage) their new CPUs by placing them in the wrong motherboards.
....

 

haha I don't usually expect such strong opinion statement from Anandtech, deserved or not.

Other than that, the article itself is long. A little of everything, ATX, mATX, ITX. The table on this page has a good breakdown: https://www.anandtech.com/show/11860/z370-motherboards-asus-asrock-ecs-evga-biostar-msi-gigabyte/41

EVGA Z370 Micro is a weird looking board.

 

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  • 9 months later...

I posted a bit about this in the general technology post. 

Same 370 socket, but a new high end is the 9900k.  Keep in mind that the 9700k is not hyperthreaded.  This is still grade A retarded, but Intel needed a way to differentiate their product lines and try and compete with AMD.  This will still be on their 14nm ++ process.  I'm expecting that these processors might not do so well against zen 2 when it comes out, but we'll see what the benchmarks say. 

1533049198kuub5na3n6_1_1_l.png

image.png

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Think about it this way, Intel's current product lineup is a 6/12 solution called the 8700k.  This is their current top end.  I understand the idea of introducing a newer/better top end of 8/16, but you've also just neutered your 9700k down to 8/8 which I imagine might perform worse than a 6/12 solution in certain applications.  The 9700k is clearly a 9900k that they've disabled hyperthreading on, this isn't a i5 without hyper threading or limited cores, it's one of their top end products that they've elected to reduce in capability. 

I think if the 9700k was a 6/12 solution like the current 8700k it would still be enough product differentiation and still warrant it's own SKU, without taking away from the 9900k being the new top end 8/16 solution. 

I also bet that 4.7 number get's thermal throttled really quick without delidding (don't get me started on that) and/or serious water cooling setups. 

I know I sound incredibly harsh towards Intel right now, and that's partially because the current lineup of chips seems to be treading water, we haven't seen decent IPC increases or serious core/thread increases until AMD started shellacking Intel across the board.

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On 7/31/2018 at 7:21 PM, Malaphax said:

Think about it this way, Intel's current product lineup is a 6/12 solution called the 8700k.  This is their current top end.  I understand the idea of introducing a newer/better top end of 8/16, but you've also just neutered your 9700k down to 8/8 which I imagine might perform worse than a 6/12 solution in certain applications.  The 9700k is clearly a 9900k that they've disabled hyperthreading on, this isn't a i5 without hyper threading or limited cores, it's one of their top end products that they've elected to reduce in capability. 

I think if the 9700k was a 6/12 solution like the current 8700k it would still be enough product differentiation and still warrant it's own SKU, without taking away from the 9900k being the new top end 8/16 solution. 

 

So if I understand this:

i7-8700K (6/12) ->i7- 9700K (8/8)  you don't like because you lose more "cores" (I'm on the opinion this is a reasonable upgrade over prev. gen due to below explanation). 

i9 was introduced as a new "tier" that takes the old spot of the i7. So I think you simply just don't like the 4-tier system versus the 3 tier system. They basically moved the HEDT back into a single platform rather than the monstrous E-ATX options.

For me personally, I'd much prefer an 8/8 than a 6/12 configuration. Real cores are much better than  hyperthreaded logical cores.

I don't think hyperthreading is really that big of an issue because its honestly not that valuable in these days of 6+ cores (it wasn't that great with 4 cores either). Its biggest benefit was when CPUs were just 1 or 2 cores. All it is is just a better scheduler to make use of downtime when a CPU pipeline is waiting for a memory read or something. For single applications (non-media/ or independent calculations) with multi-threading capability, you'd never really max out more than one core as secondary threads rarely require a full CPU performance due to so many dependencies. It can actually slow down performance when when the primary thread is re-engaged and it has to resume its main work and drop the secondary thread work. 

 

Quote

I also bet that 4.7 number get's thermal throttled really quick without delidding (don't get me started on that) and/or serious water cooling setups. 

This may be a real issue, but I'll await and see.

Quote

I know I sound incredibly harsh towards Intel right now, and that's partially because the current lineup of chips seems to be treading water, we haven't seen decent IPC increases or serious core/thread increases until AMD started shellacking Intel across the board.

This has always been the case because they don't want to get rid of our their only real competitor otherwise they get all this anti-trust lawsuits etc. As much as we'd like to see constant improvement very few companies in the world do so outside of a competitive environment. For this I blame AMD rather than Intel. I always found it odd that people liked to blame Intel or not pushing the envelope further when their competitors just really needed to step up their game. 

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I think Nvidia has been steadily kicking AMD's ass in the GPU market for the last 10 years.  They have ~70% market share of the dGPU market and have not been hit with an anti-trust case recently (although there are times they do some extra shady bullshit).  They might shift launch dates on GPUs but I've never seen them intentionally nerf performance, although I give some credit that they do hold back in case AMD takes the performance crown (which hasn't happened in a long while). 

I absolutely can agree that AMD wasn't doing anything with their CPUs for many years, Bulldozer was hot garbage, and they've had their own set of problems for quite some time.  But now that AMD is firing on all cylinders I'm seeing Intel start to shit the bed.  I think this is partially a coincidence that their 10nm production doesn't work, but it came at a very bad time for Intel, seeing as AMD is on fire right now. 

I wrote a much longer piece about differentiation and SKUs but at this point I will boil it down to "I think Intel's current SKUs make little sense compared to their direct competitor and seem designed to help justify even higher premiums on their top end processors."

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AMDs last groundbreaking design was the 5870 (DX11, 2009) which wasn't bested until the GTX 6x0 series in 2012, and I haven't seen them return to the crown since. Their Vega cards are good but late and less competitive than Nvidia's solution which was out a whole year earlier. We wont see anything new till Navi comes out which is currently slated for 2019 or later.....

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