AMD Ryzen 2 (Pinnacle Ridge)

[kuhla]

Main article: https://www.anandtech.com/show/12625/amd-second-generation-ryzen-7-2700x-2700-ryzen-5-2600x-2600

Bench comparison: https://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/2110?vs=1950

Read the Anandtech article. Many small, but good, tweaks and it consumes more power and produces more heat. The payoff is improvements seemingly across the whole board (~3% before talking about the increased clock).

ITX boards linked in the article:

ASUS X470 https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813119101

ASRock X470 https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157837

[Malaphax]

Glad to see it's about where I expected.  A nice incremental bump and with a more aggressive turbo and higher power draw. 

I'm still more curious to see where the real 2nd generation lines up when it releases sometime next year, but in the meantime AMD is doing a very admirable job.  I hope they continue to see success in the CPU and GPU market.

Sidenote: As usual we get PS2 ports on high end motherboards.  This shit ain't going in a server guys, no one in their right mind would ever make use of these ports, so stop wasting the space on them. 

[kuhla]

I've read some other reviews now. Anandtech seriously needs to triple check their numbers.

That being said, the overall picture has not changed and a lot of the same use-cases for Zen1 apply to Zen2, compared to Intel, just now with added emphasis.

[Malaphax]

While I've generally respected Anandtech for their work, I have to admit - they've really fallen off lately.  Not only are they often slow (look at their review of your current mobo just being released... 1 year late) but they seem to have several spelling/grammar errors (what's an editor, just post it lol) and haven't really be impressing me with anything other than their in depth take on certain technologies.

I think the best summed up image I can post about the new Ryzen is this one:

I think Ryzen in general has been the better value proposition for anyone, but especially for people that game at 1440p, or do CPU intensive applications. 

[kuhla]

4 hours ago, Malaphax said:

....

I think the best summed up image I can post about the new Ryzen is this one:
....

I think Ryzen in general has been the better value proposition for anyone, but especially for people that game at 1440p, or do CPU intensive applications. 

I would still say that if someone is building a purely gaming PC, no matter what resolution they play at, that an 8700k is the best choice.

As soon as the discussion moves away from anything less than a pure gaming PC that it starts becoming a much better value proposition in favor of Zen2; more in-line with that price-to-performance-in-cinebench graph.

Zen1 was a similar discussion but the much higher launch prices hurt their price-to-performance.

[Malaphax]

While I agree the 8700k wins almost universally in gaming.  You're also paying more for the 8700k.  I would give some credit to the fact that Intel's motherboards are a more mature technology than AMD counterparts, but that starts straying off of the pure gaming build you talking about. 

https://pcpartpicker.com/products/compare/sxDzK8,bddxFT/

I think a better description for how I feel about the CPU market would be - AMD and Intel are very near parity, neither choice is bad. 
I would generally recommend the 8 core CPU for the same price over a 6 core CPU.  I can see more use cases for the extra cores and processing (not strictly gaming) and I also believe that more games/engines will begin to make better use of multi-core processors - then again we've been waiting on that to come true for a long time now. 

[kuhla]

The 6 core vs 8 core options I feel really weird about. If you want budget gaming, you would go even cheaper than those options. If you just wanted core+thread count for lots of applications then you would go for Zen1 8 core (which are currently on decent discount). What is the use case for the 6 core options?.... Who is going to buy those? Weird middle ground. Would probably make more sense if more games scaled properly.

[kuhla]

On 4/19/2018 at 10:29 AM, kuhla said:

Anandtech seriously needs to triple check their numbers.

"A Timely Discovery: Examining Our AMD 2nd Gen Ryzen Results"

https://www.anandtech.com/show/12678/a-timely-discovery-examining-amd-2nd-gen-ryzen-results
 

Quote

 

....

Moving forward, the immediate goal here at AnandTech is to ensure that our readers have the most up-to-date and correct results, particularly for our Ryzen 2000-series review. As a result, we are taking a few steps both immediately and in the future to correct our data, update our Ryzen 2000-series review, and to prevent this issue going forward.
....

 

WELL THEN. I remember old guides from years ago recommending to disable HPET to reduce DPC. I know I did on my 2500k.

[Malaphax]

https://wccftech.com/amd-7nm-zen-2-rumors-16-core-am4-32-core-threadripper-64-core-epyc/

Supposedly Zen 2 (Matisse - not Zen+ 2000 series) is aiming for 10-15% bump in IPC and possibly even 12/24 and 16/32 core/thread offerings.  I'm not sure that AMD would want to cannibalize their own threadripper series by bumping core counts that high on AM4, but who knows. 

I also expect that these chips will launch sometime in Q2'18, since we had zen launch March 2 2017, zen + launched April 17 2018 and I'm going to take a guess that we'll see zen 2 launch somewhere near March/April 2019.  Especially if they're currently sending out samples to vendors right now. 

I've also been skimming some x470 motherboard reviews and the general consensus is that there was a rather big improvement from the x370 boards in terms of bios quality and stability.  Seems like AMD board partners are hitting their stride and x570 boards will most likely be solid as well. 

[T1no]

the question and somewhat unrelated. should i buy AMD stoko?

[Malaphax]

Something something disclaimer this does not constitute financial advice blah blah blah. 

AMD is way up for the year and looks like it's finally not crap.  It also has a much higher forward P/E ratio than both Intel and TSMC which is expected.  AMD also doesn't pay dividends and hasn't announced any stock buybacks, so the entire value of the stock is in it's potential growth.  This means the stock is very risky and has a chance to crash back down again, it's done this several times in the past year or so.  It's also trading at a 52 week high. 
Earnings are 7/25/18 maybe wait until then to figure out if it's worth putting money into.  If you like gambling feel free to buy some shares now and see if it pops after earnings next week.

I personally wouldn't buy it at the current price, but that opinion may change. 

https://finviz.com/quote.ashx?t=amd

[Jedi2155]

I bought in ~$10 or $11 and sold at $16.

[Jedi2155]

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/07/25/amd_q2_fy2018_record_quarter/

Summarized as:

• Price Target $22
• Strong Profits from server sales
• Stronger than expected desktop sales.
• Offerings on all major pc makers.

[Malaphax]

DISCLAIMER: THIS IS NOT INVESTMENT ADVICE - DON'T PLAY IN TRAFFIC, OR GO AHEAD AND LIVE YOUR LIFE

I'm copy/pasting some of what I emailed to the other investment advisors at work. 
AMD posted “strong” revenue, in line with estimates.  The stock is up 10% from yesterday, so clearly the street thinks they’re the new hot ticket.  Of course, there’s always the doomsayers out there, specifically mentioning one salient point – Cryptocurrency miners. 
AMD’s revenue from Computing and Graphics did drop -3% Q/Q.  Some analysts are reading into this and suggesting the cryptocurrency slump may represent a significant portion of that drawdown and represents a looming issue for AMD.  I don’t personally agree with that assessment. 

I also want to bring up the largest portion of their Q/Q revenue increase was due to their Enterprise & Semi-Custom segment rising by 37% Y/Y and 26% Q/Q.  But beware this includes some accounting chicanery, so I wouldn’t expect that level of growth to be sustainable. 

AMD is currently making a bid for market share, and it seems to be slowly but steadily working.  Between Intel’s manufacturing woes, their vulnerabilities to Spectre & Meltdown and AMD’s very impressive products being launched year after year – I do think AMD is looking better than they have in a long time. 

http://quarterlyearnings.amd.com/news-releases/news-release-details/amd-reports-second-quarter-2018-financial-results

Also if this gets out of hand I'm moving this shit into a financial/stocks thread. 

[Jedi2155]

I would start moving all stock discussion next into financial stocks thread as its fundamentally a different topic than the current Zen+ and Zen 2 architectures. I'll be watching these chips quite a bit due to my interest in an upgrade over the next year and a half. My current rig is no slouch but its already 4+ years old....so...yep.

[Malaphax]

Supposedly the Zen 2 (3000 series?) are currently being sampled to board partners and expected to release in 1H'18, probably around March which was when the 2700x was released. 

There are estimates of 13% IPC improvement.  This is in line with my earlier posts that estimated between 10-15% increase in IPC. 
https://wccftech.com/amd-zen-2-7nm-cpu-13-percent-ipc-increase-rumor/

Of course we'll wait and see what it ends up being, but unless Zen 2 is utter trash (highly unlikely) I'll look to build a new rig based on Zen 2. 

[kuhla]

I definitely expect a few % points increase but I'm a bit hesitant to believe "13%" until we have more info. I'm mainly thinking of how many previous rumors included the performance increase from the clock increase too.

[Jedi2155]

This is definitely on my high visibility list now because my desktop took a shit (motherboard appears to be dead but need a spare LGA1150  CPU parts to confirm).  Been using my laptop in the meantime but definitely want my desktop back up and running.

[Malaphax]

If you need a desktop up "now" or within the next 3 months, I'd actually say bite the bullet at get a 2700x.  I've seen some really nice deals on those CPUs/motherboards and if you can survive to black friday or cyber monday you might even find something better. 

The 2000 series already had major improvements over the first generation ryzen motherboards, and have become much more stable.  We're not seeing weekly bios updates from major board partners, which is a good sign. 

[kuhla]

2 hours ago, Malaphax said:

....deals on those CPUs/motherboards.....

This has pretty much been the going rate for a few weeks/months now:

 

[Jedi2155]

Couple of things, I'll need to find time to do extensive research between the 9700/9900K and a Ryzen 2700X (or 3000x) before I make any decision, but I'll be planning an intermediary setup. The main thing I lose right now is my sound system and access to my hard drive data with my backup but those can be easily remedied.

I believe I can survive without my desktop as my laptop is reasonably powerful. I'm planning on purchasing an Alienware Graphics Amplifier (price went up from $143) so I can go back to my 3 monitor setup with my GTX 1080, and behave as a docking station with support with all 3 displays. 

Spectre/meltdown performance remains a concern for me due to how I use my computer (I run 2-8 game instances simultaneously with tons of chromes pages, videos, discord mumble etc.), so seeing how Ryzen is going to address that as well as Intel is something I need to consider. I want a decent hardware solution and it seems like Coffee Lake refresh series offers that.

I need to find a similar chart to this on Ryzen's product timeline.

 

An interesting aspect is Intel's hyperthreaded vs. non-hyperthreaded CPU choice (anandtech recently did a article on the scheduler for Ryzen which I haven't read yet.). An important piece is how hyperthreading can REDUCE performance which is why I'm not so big on hyperthreading these days as compared to the 1-2 core days. 

Quote

Application loading is typically single thread limited, but we see here that at some point it also becomes core-resource limited. Having access to more resources per thread in a non-HT environment helps the 8C/8T and 6C/6T processors get ahead of both of the 5.0 GHz parts in our testing

.....

The 9700K also puts up a strong showing in this situation, second only to the 9900K. We have a few theories on this – including whether the lack of hyper-threading plays a benefit – but it’s none the less notable that the new CFL-R CPUs are taking the top two spots.

Lots of research and pro's / con's to be considered on top of financial considerations.

[Jedi2155]

I'm tempted to go i9 9900k, instead of waiting for Ryzen 2 or 2700x. Convince me otherwise? I don't think the additional $300 for the CPU is much of a barrier. 

[Malaphax]

If cost is not an issue going with a 9900k is perfectly reasonable.  You are paying a significant premium for slightly better single core performance, but you also get a more mature/stable ecosystem. 

Anandtech's review said as much, paraphrased: "The 9900k is the best processor but it's not cost efficient." 

I don't expect the AMD 3700x to be better than the 9900k, but I do expect it will be very close and quite a bit less expensive. 

[kuhla]

2 hours ago, Jedi2155 said:

I'm tempted to go i9 9900k, instead of waiting for Ryzen 2 or 2700x. Convince me otherwise? I don't think the additional $300 for the CPU is much of a barrier. 

I thought your current setup was fine based on what you said in group chat around black friday. Either way, I just cannot advocate for the 9900k since I feel it is a poor value. In my mind it is in a similar situation as the 2080ti where it is the fastest but you are paying so much for it.

[T1no]

whats the step below that 9900k?