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Malaphax

Nvidia RTX 2000 Series

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35 minutes ago, kuhla said:

2080Ti at $999. 2080 at $699. You can find multiple used 1080Ti for around $500 and (ignoring the new features) it's awfully close to the 2080 performance at most resolutions. You can sell a 1080 for around $300. So a 25-30% increase for $200-ish? That is not cheap but it is better value than a 2080/2080Ti right now especially if someone is coming from a 1080 (like we all are).

Not to mention I believe RTX performance at this stage is akin to 1st gen DirectX 8 GPUs (Geforce 3) or DX10 (8800 GTX). While it works, its not going be a high performing chip if you want everything turned on. It's going to take a few generations.

Raw performance is still better than the increased feature set, and outside of the RTX 2080 Ti, you're getting the same raw performance between the 2080 and 1080 Ti.

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A little while back the RTX performance results were basically terrible.  Supposedly the new driver and new patch for BF5 have improved this up to 50%.  I'll wait for new benchmarks to see if that's true, but I'm glad to see everyone is trying their best to get decent performance out of the new tech. 

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/news/battlefield-v-dxr-update-game-ready-driver/

If that isn't enough gigarays for you, you can pick up 11 of them in the new RTX Titan for a measly $2,500
https://news.developer.nvidia.com/nvidia-reveals-the-titan-of-turing-titan-rtx/

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Saw a sale for a 2080 in the $600 price range. I would've picked i up but my feelings about the 2080 are echoed well in this article.

I'm actually currently more interested in a 2 GPU setup so I can split the load between multiple game clients (EVE on secondary monitor while another game on the primary), so I'm kinda interested more in a 1080 right now. Is anyone interested in selling their 1080's anytime soon? Current market price for used 1080s are in the 300-400 range. I missed the sale at Fry's for $340 for an MSI one, so darn it (hopefully someone more disadvantaged got it).

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Better Link: https://videocardz.com/79870/amd-radeon-vii-benchmarks-leak-ahead-of-launch

They claimed this in their press briefing - key point that it barely beats a 2080, it does not compete with a 2080ti. 
The issue is they're going to release the R7 at $700 just like the 2080, we'll see if Nvidia ends up dropping prices or doubles down on "we have gigrays."

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https://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/battlefield-v-dlss-update,1.html

https://www.reddit.com/r/nvidia/comments/aq6wc8/february_2019_rtx_updates_battlefield_v_dlss/

DLSS has only been available on a benchmark of Final Fantasy 15 and now it's been rolled out to both Battlefield 5 and Metro Exodus.  While it boosts performance it's also visually worse and results in a more blurry image quality. 

From a purely technical level the idea of DLSS sounds awesome, but the current practical application is basically a worse version of TAA with better performance.  Also the Battlefield 5 implementation is a fucking mess because it depends on what card you use - the 2080ti can only enable DLSS at 4k resolution right now, while the less expensive 2070 can enable it at 1080p, 1440p and 4k - what a fucking joke. 

Here's a reddit thread showing that rendering 4k at 80% resolution scale looks visually better and has better performance than using DLSS:
https://www.reddit.com/r/nvidia/comments/aqcxl1/dlss_vs_80_resolution_scale_in_bfv_3440x1440/

Honestly this is a giant shitshow.  Nvidia completely fucked this entire rollout so badly that even hardcore fanboys are starting to wonder what the hell is going on.  Nvidia released cards with huge price increases, very little performance increase and a bunch of features that exist on 2-3 games and are poorly implemented at best.  Worse yet, AMD is still not competitive and so Nvidia isn't being pushed to fix these issues or drop prices.  I suspect we might see mild price drops in the coming weeks but I doubt it will be much more than $100 on a 2080 and maybe $200 on a 2080ti - which doesn't make up for the performance.  

I'm also a bit concerned about the next generation of Nvidia cards.  I have a suspicion that Nvidia knows some of their customers are going to skip this generation and wait for the next, and they might take advantage of that with another small performance increase and sky high prices.  At this point AMD (and Intel lol) need to push Nvidia or consumers are going to get screwed over for 3 years.   

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deep learning tho; performance its going to improve over timeee right ????? right ?

godamn minivan, howcome intel doesnt get into this game.  this nvidia and amd thing... need some one to just come in like apex legends

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I know you're mostly joking, but yes, supposedly these will get better over time.  I"m incredibly skeptical of that claim, because the sheer number of different options/settings available on most modern games would all create differences in performance and GPU output.  At best Nvidia might be able to say "with these particular settings that we've optimize for - you will see a performance increase and solid visual quality" at which point you might as well buy a console. 

Intel is currently working on a GPU, it's expected to launch sometime around ~2020.  I expect it won't be nearly as impressive as AMD or Nvidia's offerings, but it might be a mid range option or allow them to compete more effectively with AMD's CPUs that have bundled integrated graphics on the same chip. 

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On 10/24/2018 at 3:12 PM, kuhla said:

2080Ti at $999. 2080 at $699. You can find multiple used 1080Ti for around $500 and (ignoring the new features) it's awfully close to the 2080 performance at most resolutions. You can sell a 1080 for around $300. So a 25-30% increase for $200-ish? That is not cheap but it is better value than a 2080/2080Ti right now especially if someone is coming from a 1080 (like we all are).

4 months later used 1080 ti still best value

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On 8/24/2018 at 8:23 AM, kuhla said:

"Turing Custom: A Quick Look At Upcoming GeForce RTX 2080 Ti & 2080 Cards"

https://www.anandtech.com/show/13268/custom-geforce-rtx-2080-quick-look

I do NOT like this trend. I'm seeing a lot of cards >2 slots wide. I really wish companies would stick to spec height and spec width.

EVEN THE LOW END CARDS ARE 3 SLOT NOW

https://www.anandtech.com/show/13973/nvidia-gtx-1660-ti-review-feat-evga-xc-gaming

COME ON

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Cards are trying to be more quiet and cool, so I understand why many of these cards even at the low end are using large coolers.  They might also be utilizing some of these GPU coolers from their higher end models because they get bulk deals or they share the same tooling making it easier to assemble. 

I think another issue is the lack of expansion card options.  How many PCI-E slots do most people use? I assume there might be a few people with a sound card, or even fewer running SLI without some form of water cooling.  At this point motherboards also have placed PCI-E slots far apart from one another instead of cramming in a bunch of PCI-E x4 and x1 slots in between the x16 slots that ended up being covered by the GPU cooler. 

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On 2/22/2019 at 11:59 AM, Malaphax said:

Cards are trying to be more quiet and cool, so I understand why many of these cards even at the low end are using large coolers.  They might also be utilizing some of these GPU coolers from their higher end models because they get bulk deals or they share the same tooling making it easier to assemble. 

I think another issue is the lack of expansion card options.  How many PCI-E slots do most people use? I assume there might be a few people with a sound card, or even fewer running SLI without some form of water cooling.  At this point motherboards also have placed PCI-E slots far apart from one another instead of cramming in a bunch of PCI-E x4 and x1 slots in between the x16 slots that ended up being covered by the GPU cooler. 

I'm one of those super rare people who uses up my expansion slots. I'd be out of slots of I wanted to put in my Serial Port in for communicating with FPGA equipment.

1x PCI-E Sound Card

4x Dual 1080 Ti's

1x eSATA slot

2x CCFL controller slots.

 

In either case these things are basically chodes.

GeForce_GTX_1660Ti_FINAL_1550346569_22.j

 

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We had that weird teaser from Nvidia about "super is coming" the rumor mill is currently heating up with possibilities. 
Current rumors are:

  • Price drop on 2080 and 2070 cards - current estimate is $100 price drop on both, notice they did not mention the 2080ti which most people are expecting to retain it's current performance crown
  • New "super" 2070 and 2080 cards with ~15% increase in performance and will slot into the current 2070 and 2080 price ranges.

Supposedly these announcements will be made around e3 to try and steal the spotlight from AMD's Navi launch. 
I'm not really sure this does much to the current nvidia performance situation.  The 2080 is roughly the same performance as a 1080ti and adding +15% on top of that for ~$700-800 still doesn't make a ton of sense from a price/performance standpoint.  This entire cycle seems really crappy from a consumer standpoint.  I don't really like the idea of sitting on my 1080 for another 1-2 years but the current price/performance gains is really disappointing. 

https://videocardz.com/80946/nvidia-super-teaser-is-not-dead

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2 hours ago, Malaphax said:

.....my 1080.....

In a way that is kind of the problem isn't it? We have 1080s which are roughly equivalent to 2070s in performance. There are only 3 "notches" above that currently

1) 2080 (which is roughly equal to a 1080ti)

2) 2080 ti

3) Titan

If we had lower end cards, this would potentially be a bit more interesting.

EDIT: I still see used 1080 Ti's listed around the $500 mark.

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I consider the titans to be a totally different product stack and so far outside of the mainstream that I don't even bother thinking about them.

Here's a comparison of the 1080 to the 2080 (stock to stock)
https://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/2137?vs=2139

There are performance gains, but nothing truly astounding.  The RTX feature set is almost unusable on the 2080ti let alone a base 2080 so there's no real advantage there either. 
Even if a 2080-SUPER was released with 15% gains over the current 2080 at the same price ($700+) it's still not a "big" upgrade. 

I'd probably be much happier sinking the money for a 2080 into a new monitor. 

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We're starting to hear rumors of the next generation nvidia GPUs.  Currently the only info is that it will be Ampere architecture and launching in 2020.  More importantly it will be on the 7nm process but instead of using TSMC, they'll be using Samsung for production - this is due to Samsung aggressively undercutting TSMC's pricing.  I'm curious as to how that will work out.   

https://www.guru3d.com/news-story/nvidia-next-gen-ampere-gpus-to-arrive-in-2020-based-on-samsung-7nm-euv-process.html

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On 8/24/2018 at 3:44 PM, kuhla said:

.....

What I'm seeing the AIB partners makes me think this is just up-the-ante made-for-gamers garbage with 32423 phase VRM, out of spec height, ridiculous width, as many fans as they can cram, RBG all the things. Half of them will probably have issues with temperature throttling, or maybe instability with their factory overclocks or what have you.

EVGA last generation is actually both a good and bad example of this. Some of their top 1080 cards had a custom VRM setups and 2-fan-2-slot-open-design that was quieter, cooler and clocked higher than reference design but pretty much retained all the dimensions.

Just out of curiousity I did try to followup on this today.

filtered newegg search - https://www.newegg.com/p/pl?Submit=Property&N=100007709 601321492 8000 600419829 4814&IsNodeId=1&bop=And&PageSize=36&order=PRICE

There are a few sticking to stricktly 2-slot width and a few of those even stick to normal right too. EVGA is usually good about that and they don't disappoint this time.

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If you care about the GPU remaining in a 2slot space then honestly you should just get one with the built in AIO attached to it.  The current 2080ti's run quite hot (2080's are mostly ok) and there's a reason why every AIB slapped a 2.5 or 3.5 slot cooler with 3 fans on them. 

If you have space to spare and don't care much about looks you could do something ridiculous like an after market air cooler for your GPU. 
There's the arctic accellero 4 (or 3) or the raijintek morphius 2 - either of which do a great job cooling but take up something like 4+ slots and you probably want a brace to prevent GPU sag. 

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So Quake 2 RTX version demo/game whatever was released.  The performance is so goddamn impressive.  I mean just look at these sickening numbers for a 22 year old game running on a different engine with some lighting effects....

image.png

image.png

Yea that's right if you spend ~$1200+ for the highest end GPU available - you too can achieve a blisteringly impressive 30fps at 4k in quake 2 with RTX. 

I know I'm being a snarky asshole but HOLY SHIT NVIDIA THOUGHT THIS WAS A GOOD IDEA TO RELEASE THIS - WHY DID THEY THINK THIS WOULD BE A GOOD IDEA? THE PERFORMANCE IS STRAIGHT GARBAGE, IT'S NOT EVEN PLAYABLE AT 4K ON THEIR HIGHEST END GPU, WHAT THE FUCK. 

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