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Malaphax

Nvidia RTX 2000 Series

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On 6/7/2019 at 9:41 AM, kuhla said:

I'm going to stream the demo. 7 fps here we go.

 

On 6/7/2019 at 10:10 AM, Malaphax said:

Does twitch support powerpoint?

 

On 6/7/2019 at 10:23 AM, Jedi2155 said:

I don't know but Powerpoint has some pretty smooth animations.....

GIGARAYS

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/437444087?t=00h20m06s

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Latest rumors I'm hearing about Nvidia's SUPER lineup is that they're going to reveal the new cards at gamescom - 8/20/19
Supposedly there was a private tech press event from Nvidia at e3. 

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6/21

https://wccftech.com/exclusive-nvidias-super-gpus-unleashing-monsters/

image.png

  • NVIDIA’s SUPER Summer starts on 6/21

  • New chip: the NVIDIA RTX 2080 Ti SUPER exists and will be an absolute beast of a card

  • The NVIDIA RTX 2080 SUPER 11GB graphics card will feature an unlocked 2080 Ti chip

  • New chip: the NVIDIA RTX 2070 Ti SUPER 8GB exists

  • The NVIDIA RTX 2070 SUPER 8GB graphics card will feature an unlocked 2080 chip

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I'm a bit suspect that Nvidia would even want to push a 2080ti SUPER mostly because AMD has confirmed they have nothing that even competes with a 2080 let alone a 2080ti.  All the super rumors I had read before this were talking about lower in the product stack at the 2060, 2070 and 2080 levels at most.  Also if that leak is correct the 2080ti super is basically a titan card, considering the 2080ti's already carry what I would consider titan pricing, it seems like the 2080ti SUPER would be sitting in the $1500+ price range for AIB cards. 

I'm skeptical about these announcements but I have been seeing some 2080 and 2080ti's on "sale" in the past week or so (EVGA in particular), which could indicate that AIBs are trying to sell off overstocked inventory before the new product launch. 

I suspect we'll get a product announcement and launch sometime between 6/21/19 and gamescom 8/20/19.  We might get a paper launch right around the time AMD releases their new products and stock might hit shelves a little later this year. 

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If that's true then pricing has to come down on the current models. So the new price and performance stack looks something like this I guess?

  1. 2080 Ti Super
  2. 2080 Ti
  3. 2080 Super
  4. 2080
  5. 2070 Super
  6. 2070

 

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All the rumors I've read mentioned that they expect the Super line to maintain current pricing (or go up in the case of the 2080 Ti) but that non-super cards will see a price drop of up to $100.  I suspect they're going to try and clear stock as quickly as possible so that they can move on to just selling Super cards from about Q4'19 forward to the next product launch.  Of course the worst part is trying to predict if the sales in the next weeks/months on non-super cards are worth it, we might get another 1080ti situation where in hindsight it was better to buy the current 2000 series on sale rather than pick up the supers.

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I really hope no one at Nvidia really thinks there are people that will look at a $900 2080ti and will think "that just did not make sense at $1000 but now it's priced just right for me to buy it!"

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Where the hell are you seeing $900 2080Ti's? Most of the AIBs are selling for $1,100+

Right now Newegg lists 1 card at $920 everything else is $1,100+  Even worse is that one card is a third party seller. 
https://www.newegg.com/p/pl?N=4814&d=2080ti&PageSize=96&order=PRICE

Same thing at amazon, I'm seeing $1,100+ for everything:
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=rtx+2080+ti&i=computers&rh=n%3A284822%2Cp_n_feature_four_browse-bin%3A16955282011&s=price-asc-rank&dc&qid=1560384699&rnid=2057431011&ref=sr_st_price-asc-rank

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i think kuhla just speculating that nvidia will drop the price of the current offerings by 100-200 ~ to slot in the super and call it good deal? 

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4 hours ago, Malaphax said:

Where the hell are you seeing $900 2080Ti's? Most of the AIBs are selling for $1,100+

On sale a 2080ti has hit $1000 a couple of times on sale. Here are some examples:

$1000 was also the launch MSRP. I figure after the price drop.....

1 hour ago, T1no said:

i think kuhla just speculating that nvidia will drop the price of the current offerings by 100-200 ~ to slot in the super and call it good deal? 

....yeah.

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Starting to see mixed messages from the rumor mill at this point.  I'm seeing some people suggest that the new super refresh will have the $100 reduction in price and others are suggesting it's going to be a performance uplift for the current prices while old stock gets a $100 price cut across the board. 

https://www.guru3d.com/news-story/rumor-nvidia-super-is-a-refreshed-geforce-rtx-2060-(249)2070-(399)2080-(599).html

Interesting note, this article mentions that 2080 and 2080ti sales are much lower than previous generation sales.  I'm not sure where they're getting that from, my gut says this makes sense, but there's also no crytpcurrency miners buying high end cards anymore (although I seem to recall them buying more mid range cards).  I'm also not sure that Nvidia has a reason to drop their top end card prices when AMD has announced that they have nothing to compete with anything above a 2070 (let alone a potential 2070 super).  While I think it would be great to see price drops on the 2000 series I'm in a very wait and see mode. 

My hot take is that the 2000 series is still a terrible upgrade path for 1080 and 1080ti owners.  I'm not sure if Nvidia has run into the same problem that Apple and other smartphone companies have where they needed to raise prices to try and compensate for lower unit sales and suddenly realized that raising prices dropped unit sales even further.  I'm also unsure if we've reached a price ceiling with flagship GPUs but I get the feeling that this generation has pushed many consumers to hold off on upgrading at current prices. 

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Here's the latest rumors - we should get official confirmation on 6/21/19.

https://wccftech.com/nvidia-rtx-super-graphics-cards-msrp-leaked/

Supposedly since Nvidia is providing AIB partners with more freedom (they're selling just the GPUs not the VRM package as well), we might see some "super" overdesigned cards with crazy power draw and big overclocks - these cards are also rumored to be unlocked. 

There's also a second rumor that I haven't seen before talking about how they're also going to have a Ti refresh at some point in the future, meaning we will get both a 2070 SUPER and 2070 ti SUPER alongside a 2080 ti SUPER at some point.  The Ti refresh part is a brand new rumor so I'm extra cautious about believing it.  The current top end cards are still stupidly expensive which I've heard has stymied sales, and releasing a slightly faster 2080 or 2080 Ti at the current prices (or even $100 less) isn't exactly going to net too many new sales.  Nvidia might be hoping that the Ryzen 3000 launch is going to spur PC building and they'll see an increase in sales but that's a weird bet to make - I'd love to see AMD turn the tables on them and run package deals with their new CPUs & GPUs in an attempt to help get market share. 

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2060 Super and 2070 Super reviews are out, supposedly we'll be getting 2080 Super reviews in the next week or two.  General consensus is that the 2060 is very strong price/performance for mid-range.  The 2070 Super is basically reject 2080's.  They actually perform very similarly to full 2080 cards.  I'm still interested to see where the new 2080 Super slots in.  Currently performance looks like the 2070 is about even with a 1080ti (depending on the game/resolution) and combined with some games making better use of ray-tracing, the cards aren't looking like complete shit (like at launch). 

I'm still very wary about this entire situation mostly due to the next gen cards supposedly due to launch in 2H 2020 and on 7nm to boot. 

The 2070 Super seems like a reasonable "filler" card if you can get it near the $500 MSRP.  Since used 1080ti's are currently going for that same amount, you're getting basically the same performance and some small benefits for ray-tracing all in a new card rather than braving the used market.  Considering the 2080ti isn't scheduled to be refreshed and the 2080 Super is going to be $700+ the current price/performance seems to favor the middle SKUs. 

Review Roundup: https://videocardz.com/81189/nvidia-geforce-rtx-2060-super-rx-2070-super-review-roundup

Anandtech: https://www.anandtech.com/show/14586/geforce-rtx-2070-super-rtx-2060-super-review

Guru3d: https://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/geforce_rtx_2060_and_2070_super_review,1.html

GamersNexus: https://www.gamersnexus.net/hwreviews/3486-nvidia-rtx-2060-super-and-2070-super-review-benchmarks

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The 2070 Super seems very similar in performance to the 1080ti; very close to a 2080 vanilla but not quite there. I'm assuming this will affect used 1080ti prices given a little bit of time.

The 2060 Super looks like a pretty big upgrade over the 2060 vanilla. If anyone can afford to spend $50 more on their build, it seems like a no-brainer over the 2060 vanilla.

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I suspect used 1080 Ti's is going to drop to the $400-450 price range. 

Quote

I'm still very wary about this entire situation mostly due to the next gen cards supposedly due to launch in 2H 2020 and on 7nm to boot. 

I'm of the opinion of sell your cards early to minimize the depreciation, and buy now. Net cost of computer parts are relatively low as long as your can cash in your residual value.

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Briefly checking /r/hardwareswap - I'm still seeing 1080ti's going for $500+ which I think needs to come down considering the new product launches, especially the 2070 Super. 

Speaking of the 2070 Super - here's a review of the MSI trio AIB card: https://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/msi_geforce_rtx_2070_super_gaming_x_trio_review,1.html
tl;dr - stock it's trading blows with a standard 2080, if overclocked it's above a 2080 by a decent margin. 

That MSI card in particular is selling for a reasonable $515 at newegg (sold out - surprise surprise): https://www.newegg.com/msi-geforce-rtx-2070-super-rtx-2070-super-gaming-x-trio/p/N82E16814137439

Of course that seems to be the only AIB that's selling for near MSRP, Asus, Gigabyte and EVGA are selling for a bit higher.  I think at $515 that's a solid deal that makes sense, you can use it as a kind of filler until the next generation cards come out and then potentially go for a higher tier SKU. 

I'm still curious how much of a performance uplift they can squeeze out of the 2080 Supers, but just looking at the spec sheet I can't really expect much more than 10% over standard 2080's and even that might be by simply having the AIB's make use of the overclocking headroom that the 2080's had.

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I was seriously considering a b-stock eVGA 2080 FTW3 Ultra for $520 yesterday but decided against it. The XC ultra was a better deal IMO for $480 but that was quickly sold out. Couple of thoughts now that I've finally gotten around to crunching/comparing numbers.

  • FTW3 Ultra boosts to 1860 Mhz (342.2 GT/s), has triple fan
  • XC Ultra boosts to 1815 Mhz (334 GT/s), has dual fan
  • Stock boosts to 1710 MHz (314.6 GT/s)

Now a 2080 Super changes the following:

  • Cuda cores to 3072 (from 2944) 
  • Boost clock 1815 Mhz (348.5 GT/s)
  • Ram to 15.5 GHz (496 GB/s) from 14 GHz (448 GB/s).

Potentially higher boosts from AIB vendors but we'll see what happens when its actually released.

So really just a 10% boost to ram and 2% boost to core performance compared to the $520 B-Stock (1 yr vs. 3 yr. warranty, + 1 year via CC warranty) for roughly 35% more cost ($180 increase).

Missed a great deal but something I'll definitely continue to look out for.

Also for reference is a 1080 Ti

  • 331 GT/s
  • 484.4 GB/s

Which isn't significantly worse than a 2080 Super as we know.

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2080 Super reviews are out.  Some of the ones I'm looking at:

https://www.anandtech.com/show/14663/the-nvidia-geforce-rtx-2080-super-review

https://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/geforce-rtx-2080-super-review,1.html

Full list of reviews: https://videocardz.com/81510/nvidia-geforce-rtx-2080-super-review-roundup

tl;dr it's 8% faster than a standard 2080 and should be listed near the $700 MSRP. 

There's a semi-confusing graph from anandtech that tried to show the performance and performance/dollar differences between various 2000 series cards.  Note this is 4k performance. 
image.png

Again, I was worried about the 2080S because nvidia wasn't going to undercut their 2080ti, so this is mostly a price cut on the 2080's combined with a small performance boost.  The 2070S seems like one of the most cost effective cards in the "high end" bracket.  You're getting basically 2080/1080ti performance at ~$500 and considering the current cost of used 1080ti's is still near the $500 mark, it's a better value than the used market as well. 

I still have no idea if I'm going to go for a 2000 series card, but at least the prices are closer to the previous generation.  It also seems like the 2080S is only worth the extra money if you plan on overclocking.  Here's a decent rundown on the rough performance of the current cards

image.png

EDIT
Much better picture showing the differences in performance.  It doesn't really cover the cost/performance but basically it's 8.5% performance differences between the 2070S and the 2080S for a difference of $200. 

image.png

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Since we're finally seeing more games utilizing DXR and DLSS releasing I wanted to double check what the actual benefits are.  This is a solid rundown on GPUs, resolutions, and DXR/DLSS performance on the game Control.  As a note, DLSS DOES NOT support ultrawide and non-standard resolutions.  Also, I've read many people's review of DLSS back in July, suggesting that it wasn't really that great, especially compared to AMD's basic sharpening filter being applied to a downscaled resolution.  Of course where it gets really muddy is that DLSS can be stacked on top of DXR/raytracing which AMD can't currently benchmark against.  As far as this review shows, raytracing is still totally unplayable at higher resolutions, so you need to enable DLSS and upscale a lower resolution to push it back up to proper framerates. 
https://wccftech.com/control-pc-performance-explored-all-in-on-rtx/2/

Sidenote: AMD has their own version of DLSS (sort of) called Content Adaptive Sharpening/Radeon Image Sharpening, which upscales one resolution to another with some filters and technical trickery. 

There's a cool video about how well it performs here (skip to 15:04):https://youtu.be/Yi-_T3vsv-Q?t=904
Another test, shows that simple downscaling/upscaling isn't as good as when using the sharpening filter.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MLr1nijHIo

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did they ever fix the issue where the image quality is significantly worst on 1440p DLSS vs the 4k DLSS.

i tried it on anthem 1440p and it looked like absolute trash. muddy and fuzzy it looked like i was playing @ 1080p upscale. ya i gained like 10-15fps but visually its terrible.

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Honestly, I'm not sure.  I haven't tried it on any games yet, and because I run an ultrawide, DLSS isn't really an option unless I want black bars.  DLSS is also going to be different on a per-game basis.  I've heard that battlefield 5 and metro got updates to DLSS back in February, but I have no idea if that fixed the issues. 

I'll do some testing on Control later this week.   I'll have to determine if I want to play in 1440p ultrawide natively  or if I want to drop the render resolution down and try for RTX.  I've heard the game really benefits from RTX, so I really want to try running it.  Either way, I'll see about streaming a bit of it, and possibly recording some random stuff for youtube.

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I really love when Nvidia does a deep breakdown of graphical options on games.  This is their breakdown for Control.  They also included some videos explaining different ray tracing elements as well as a great number of A:B examples of different effects turned on/off. 
https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/guides/control-graphics-and-performance-guide/

Briefly when I launched the game I noticed that render scale seems to be locked behind DLSS, but there were DLSS options for ultrawide (which I believe is a first).  For 3440x1440 they offered 1720x720 and 2240x960 for DLSS resolutions. 

There's also a new driver out today, that I'll grab when I get home.

Offtopic: The epic launcher shows much more detail on how downloads are handled, it shows the network speed, drive write speed, and even a graphical display of data chunks being downloaded/written.  On the flipside, I didn't see an obvious way to implement any bandwidth limitations, but I wasn't looking too hard. 

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