Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Malaphax

Destiny 2

Recommended Posts

I am very against the idea of temporary weapons that maybe only last a season or two and then disappear. I am just barely tolerating this seasonal mod stuff.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's not quite what you're describing.  It's more like a rotating pool of available weapons. 

Rough example.  They decide to introduce a new set of weapons for this upcoming season, but in order to make sure that people want to grind for them they take a bunch of old weapons out of the loot pool and make them unusable.  So for example they lock spare rations hand cannons out of the current season, but the new handcannon is very similar (maybe even slightly worse).  You'd still have your weapons but you couldn't use them during that season.  Maybe the following season they bring them back (or not).  Likewise they could decide that recluse is too strong and retire it for a while, they could eventually bring it back to just keep it out of the current season.  The downside of this is that people who get weapons near the end of a season might suddenly find out they can't use their new gear the following season.  I suspect they'd probably adopt the same system as seasonal armor which is that all new gear is guaranteed to last for at least 2 seasons so they don't get people too mad... but this is bungo so they might fuck it up anyways. 

Again this is an idea straight from magic the gathering, there were way too many cards available so they artificially limit what's usable in any given season.  It gives them one more lever to change up the meta by flat out "banning" certain weapons.  That way they can keep a weapon type strong but limit already existing weapons from being usable. 

I do agree it means that if you grinded for a sweet gun that you like using, you could find yourself in a season where you couldn't use it, but it's one of the few ways they can keep adding weapons without blowing everything up or suffering from extreme power creep. 
The exception is exotics, which they said they want to make sure are always available. 

Overall I've been transitioning off of Destiny 2 and looking for other games, mostly trying to clear my backlog of of single player games.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Malaphax said:

It's not quite what you're describing.  It's more like a rotating pool of available weapons. 

.....

That is not much of an improvement....

If something is too strong then nerf it. If something is too weak then buff it. If it is only unique aesthetically then make it a skin ornament. Don't just whine and remove it from the game temporarily to force people off of it.

Also the idea of putting big-ish unique pieces of content into the game only to permanently retire it a couple of months later should never have been entertained in the first place.

I would love to have been a fly on the wall for the meeting where someone said "we should do more pvp where power level is factored into it".

All these changes seem like Bungie, a group of people with a long track record, just don't understand.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Unfortunately, everything you said is true. 

Bungie has a long history of getting it wrong, saying "we're sorry, we'll fix it" fixing most of it and then proceeding to repeat the cycle.  The original destiny launch was a mess followed by several bad DLCs and then finally a good second year of DLC before they decided to launch d2; which was also a mess, followed by crappy year 1 dlc until they released forsaken and turned it around.  Right now we're on more of a downslope and they haven't really figured out where they want to take this thing. 

The non-repeating content is some weird idea that I first saw in guild wars 2 (anet is also based in seattle area and some devs did get hired by bungo... hmmm) and doesn't seem to make sense.  The really feeble argument I've heard for this is that if all content was always available the disk space needed, especially on consoles, would become too large.  I think that sounds like bullshit, it's far more likely that each of these pieces of temporary content has been so similar that they didn't want them all to be available at the same time.  I mean all of the forsaken season pass content is still available...

Their PvP is complete garbage, but considering it makes up ~12% of the player population, they don't want to throw a bunch of resources at it.  There's a reason why they keep mentioning bringing back old maps rather than creating new ones.  On a general note, more and more companies seem to be getting away with poor implementations of pvp, either bad matchmaking, bad netcode, bad balance or combinations of all three.  I don't understand why some players seem so insistent on sticking with it rather than just finding a better pvp game. 

Again, I've been limiting my time with Destiny 2, and if I'm not having fun, I'll play something else. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The music is pretty sick.  The rest looks pretty samey.  I'm curious if we'll be standing on plates or dunking orbs while we kill waves of enemies...

EDIT: Adding the roadmap

Lym1jmI.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bunch of Destiny 2 stuff announced today. 

  • New Season: Season of Arrivals -  starts today - seems to be a prologue for the upcoming expansion(s)
  • New Dungeon - releasing today, free to all players, focus on the nine
  • New expansion coming September 22: Beyond Light
    • New Location: Europa
    • New Class/Damage: Stasis/Ice, this is tied to the darkness
  • New expansion listed for 2021: The Witch Queen
  • New expansion listed for 2022: Lightfall
    • Lightfall appears to be the "end" for destiny 2, or at least the end for this current storyline. 
    • They did mention they don't want to do a full reset for destiny 3 (which they claim they don't want to make) but are instead trying to stick to their live service model. 
  • Destiny Content Vault
    • Old stuff is going to go away so that new stuff can be added - occasionally older content will be refreshed and reintroduced, the big example was a raid from destiny 1: vault of glass, coming back sometime in Destiny Year 4 (which seems to be 2021). 
    • They're cutting a shitton: Io, Titan, Mercury, Mars, and Leviathan - this includes all content on any of those locations. Supposedly this first cut is the biggest and moving forward they'll be smaller changes. 
    • New homescreen looks like this
  • Gambit and Gambit Prime are being merged - the gambit prime armor is going to be turned into a cosmetic reward, so I suspect the roles/stats are getting killed off. 

Some megathreads:
https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/gzqpmh/building_a_viable_future_in_destiny_2/

https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/gzqxbr/destiny_past_present_and_future/

Bunch of videos

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
52 minutes ago, Malaphax said:

Bunch of Destiny 2 stuff announced today. 

  • New Season: Season of Arrivals -  starts today - seems to be a prologue for the upcoming expansion(s)
  • New Dungeon - releasing today, free to all players, focus on the nine
  • New expansion coming September 22: Beyond Light
    • New Location: Europa
    • New Class/Damage: Stasis/Ice, this is tied to the darkness
  • New expansion listed for 2021: The Witch Queen
  • New expansion listed for 2022: Lightfall
    • Lightfall appears to be the "end" for destiny 2, or at least the end for this current storyline. 
    • They did mention they don't want to do a full reset for destiny 3 (which they claim they don't want to make) but are instead trying to stick to their live service model. 
  • Destiny Content Vault
    • Old stuff is going to go away so that new stuff can be added - occasionally older content will be refreshed and reintroduced, the big example was a raid from destiny 1: vault of glass, coming back sometime in Destiny Year 4 (which seems to be 2021). 
    • They're cutting a shitton: Io, Titan, Mercury, Mars, and Leviathan - this includes all content on any of those locations. Supposedly this first cut is the biggest and moving forward they'll be smaller changes. 
    • New homescreen looks like this
  • Gambit and Gambit Prime are being merged - the gambit prime armor is going to be turned into a cosmetic reward, so I suspect the roles/stats are getting killed off. 

Some megathreads:
https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/gzqpmh/building_a_viable_future_in_destiny_2/

https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/gzqxbr/destiny_past_present_and_future/

Bunch of videos

WAT

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Remember when bungie said they wanted to cut weapons and people were sorta split because if you don't remove good weapons you either suffer crazy power creep or people don't chase new weapons?
Well... it's worse.  They're also going to cut armor, and basically everything has a 3 season lifespan, so if you get something cool that isn't an exotic, expect it to be gone in 6-9 months.  Don't like it? Tough shit.  This particular design philosophy gets even worse when you have devs talking about "playing your way" while not only balancing content but actively removing it. 

Hot take - Bungo is doubling down on being bungo.  They love world of warcraft's constant gear treadmill and they really want to keep people constantly grinding for the next big thing.  They also want to cut down the amount they need to QA test, and supposedly cut the install size (that's some console bullshit, but w/e).  I sorta understand stuff like cutting old campaigns, they specifically mentioned that warmind makes up about a 0.3% of playtime but a 5% chunk of the install size.  I sorta get that.  But this seems like they're taking a hatchet to a huge chunk of the game.  Oddly enough as far as I know WoW doesn't ever cut content like this... Or a more appropriate comparison, Warframe doesn't cut content like this either. 

After watching Datto's recent video where he's clearly upset and dejected by the game and the constant string of broken promises, I'm going to follow his advice - I'll be waiting to see if it's worth my time to play this new season.  The new dungeon is tempting, but the "it's a really high power level requirement, so you need to grind first" is a tired trope that I'm goddamn sick of.  I'll wait even later to see if the upcoming expansion is going to be worth it. 
I know any game with a heavy loot focus has to walk a thin line between keeping player engagement through rewards and pushing players to chase/grind, but Destiny is feeling like an abusive relationship.  If they lessened the grind I might be ok with only having rewards for shorter periods of time, but I don't get the feeling they want to do that. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You know the longer I think about what happened over the last couple of days, the more angry I get.

I can understand them wanting to "fix" the AFK farming. You really don't want to reward people for NOT participating in the game and some people were being very selfish; not making an effort to avoid impacting other people's gameplay by ensuring they do not get grouped with others who actually want to play forge.

However changing the "focused Umbral Engrams could sometimes decrypt at higher Power than intended" feels like another stupid Bungo move. People are/were getting engrams from participating in the game all over the place. Remember "play how you want"? Those engrams ensured a constant, steady march to higher power levels. Even after you get to 1050, you are not really "done". You may have poor stats so you keep going for better rolls. You may have more gear you want to upgrade so you keep going for items to infuse. Bungo doesn't understand that bounty grind, strike grind, whatever grind is not fun.  Power level grind is not content.

I have no idea how long it will take, or if I ever will,  get to 1050 because now I'm looking down the barrel of weeks of boring gameplay to get there. Now there is a real chance that there will be content that I will never feel high enough level to enjoy.

Stupid.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There were multiple reddit posts that described the same thing you're saying, power grind is not fun and more importantly it's not content.  I think bungie's response to the entire situation was poorly handled.  I agree that afk farming really shouldn't exist, but players do need a constant source of power.  Players hate time-gating, and the weird weekly limits to power grind are not only time-gated but they're also RNG (another thing bungie has issues with).  Players just want to play the new content, not grind a bunch of old shit just to play the new stuff - remember they did this in black armory there was a huge backlash and they "learned from their mistakes."  Bungie has a serious issue of making mistakes, making corrections and then later on making the same original mistake.  They should cut the power farming entirely (not likely) or reduce it dramatically, I think most players would be ok farming 10-20 power each season, because that would still allow you to play the new content just slightly underleveled.  They also have a mechanic to award players with temporary power through the seasonal artifact but they don't seem to know how to use it.  It might be less satisfying to only see a seasonal artifact power increase (and reset) but it would solve some of the power grind issues. 

I don't think bungie is going to make huge changes to power grinding anytime soon, but considering how much content they're going to cut when the new expansion comes out, they need to be extremely careful about how they award power and how much grinding they expect their player base to do every 3 month season.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i dont like it either. like you said the grind is boring. and if they take that aspect entirely out. then we got no game lol. 

IDEALLY in the perfect world the grind should be within the NEW content/activity that they produce. remember when forsaken / shadowkeep release. those grinds aren't so bad because some of the contents are new. yea some uses old activity, visit old stuff. but majority was new fresh content.

the grind within the seasonal pass was boring especially last season. i don't know how to fix it but at the end of the day we all agree the grind is boring. i also understand that they prob can't keep up within the seasonal time frame to create new content all the time. on top of the new unlocks, skins,weapons, new expansions etc... 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If this was a sliding scale, I'd put bungie on one end and guild wars 2 on the other end.  Guild wars 2 releases "seasonal" content every 3-4 months sometimes, but most people can blast through all of their new stuff in 1-2 hours of gameplay and so some people literally don't login much between these content drops.  That sucks because your game population drops off a cliff and people only really log in when new content releases. 
On the other hand bungie is timegating the living shit out of all their content, the power grind is timegated, drifter's trashcan (or rasputin's thing, etc.) are timegated by limited bounties and resource drops, they also purposefully release some content later in the season to try and keep up engagement.  Bungie clearly knows if they released all the content at the same time people would blow through it and then they'd see huge drop in player population so they try and spread it out over 3 months which is why so many people are starting to complain about the grind.  Last season in particular was utter garbage and even they realized that player engagement was super low. 

I think that destiny's seasonal content model has been way worse this year then it was last year, especially last season and this season is also looking pretty slim, with only the dungeon being a big deal.  I enjoy the moment to moment gameplay of destiny but the grind or long term goals are super boring and that's before we start talking about gear being sunset.  Again, I'll be very cautious regarding the next expansion and season pass - not to mention I really have a bunch of singleplayer games I'd rather play between now and then. 

If I'm not having fun, I'll just stop play destiny 2, I did it last season and I probably will take a break sometime this season as well. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i joined the banana hamockz clan. mostly for the engrams cause they are a bit more active. Edward said you guys are free to join. 

the expansion is delayed and soo far ive been enjoying this season way more than last time. while the contact activity is arguably funner than the stupid seraph tower shit. i can only do so much contact til it gets soo boring. but i think the uniq exotics weapons and umbral engrams and the new dungeon made this season wayy more exciting than last season.  i have to say this is prob one of the better seasons we have after season of the opulence menageries tbh.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I do think this season was far better than last season (which I basically skipped).  I think the public events are ~okay~ but it's neat to see some of the weekly quests with a little bit of story being meted out over the season. 
I think season of opulence (menagerie) was one of the best pieces of content they've added.  I'd also say that season of dawn (Saint 14) was solid as well with a decent activity. 
I also think the rewards structure is part of the reason why people like this season, not only are they throwing a fair about of loot at players, but they're letting you choose what some of it is, and menagerie had the same options and people were happy.  I wonder why bungie doesn't just implement a loot token style system like some mmo's use.  In guild wars if I run a dungeon/fractal I get tokens I can spend on specific gear, seems like everyone would like that. 

As far as the expansion being delayed, I don't think that's going to affect too much, if anything it gives a slight incentive to do a few weekly quests and slowly fill out the season pass since we have extra time. 

I can't speak for kuhla, but I'm still totally up for running some of the raids.  I don't expect us to clear all of them, but I'm totally willing to watch a few youtube walkthroughs and give them a try. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So we managed to clear one raid.  Here's a video with abbreviated walk-throughs of some of the other raids that will be leaving when the new expansion hits. 

I'm totally up for trying more raids between now and the new expansion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not particularly concerned about getting the legend of acrius.  Especially with the system that bungie is implementing where you can earn older exotics that are no longer earnable with a token system. 

I'm far more concerned about people having fun.  I'm totally up for running leviathan again, but if it starts becoming a grind we should do something else.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Raid stuff and general thoughts. 

  • I'm fine with having a loose schedule of trying for raids on Saturday afternoon/evening, but I'm going to be much more strict with start and stop times. 
  • I'm also alright with running a raid multiple times, especially if we switch around the roles that people do. 
  • If we can get an entire group from our current clan that's fantastic, but at this point I feel more comfortable pugging most raids, providing we have the time set aside for it. 
    • I'm also going to insist that if we do plan on pugging a raid that we all watch the walkthrough video before starting it, that way we get a rough idea of the mechanics.

I know garden of salvation didn't go super well, but I feel like that might be one of the more mechanically complex raids.  I'm totally willing to go back and try it again, but my understanding of checkpoints is that they only last up to the weekly reset, so we'd have to do it fresh. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

some notes i have

  • i still don't understand the fixing mechanic. i understand the tether but i don't understand where is the corresponding + and the tower with the ground;  visually it doesn't make sense to me.
  • between the fixing and rotating to get motes and killing the cyclops and mobs i don't see myself doing all that its just too much.
  • when you go to get motes you need to collect 10 * 3 = 30. per side.
  • if the vex steal some that means we need to do more than 3 times?
  • sometimes you cant deposit dunno why ?
  • when does damage phase happen ? 
    • when both side have 30 each means 60 total ?
    • visual cues ?
    • or what ?

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, T1no said:
  • i still don't understand the fixing mechanic. i understand the tether but i don't understand where is the corresponding + and the tower with the ground;  visually it doesn't make sense to me.

Image below is stolen from here: https://www.powerpyx.com/destiny-2-garden-of-salvation-raid-walkthrough/

Each + sign is next to the platform that it repairs. You have to tether/connect that plus sign to repair that section.

image.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think there's two main ways of doing the encounter there's a 2x 2 man portal teams and a 2 man repair team, or there's the single man portal teams with a repair team.  There's no lockout from gathering motes, but I think it stops you from depositing if you're over 30 on the tower. 

I personally think sending in single people for motes is more efficient because when you break the weakpoint to bring them back you can send another person on the same break - also if they're quick they can sometimes pick up motes that were still on the ground from the previous person who went through the portal.  Some minor things I would change from our run last night - send in one side, wait until you kill the hydra then send in the other side.  I think breaking both weakpoints and spawning two hydras is a bit much to handle with the regular mobs and repairing. 
As far as repairing, I think the repair team needs to be good with that mechanic, warlock helps with hovering, and the people waiting to go into the portal should focus on ad clear and making sure they're ready to pull people back quickly.  I have a feeling the repair team has the hard job, and I'm willing to volunteer for that if we try this again. 

I also think the boss tether was weird, you get a fair amount of time to do the first one so it's best if we clear all the adds, take a second get everyone lined up and if necessary have a 4th person from the opposite side help out with the final tether point.  Once the first tether hits the second team needs to be ready and waiting to get that lined up quickly.  This is a good example of what the boss phase should look like, but I'm not sure I ever saw us get the second tether properly. 

Also just like the visual that kuhla posted, only focus on the middle sections, anything on the far right and left and pretty useless and shouldn't be repaired, just make sure the middle platforms are good. 

Damage phase happens when you get 30 on both sides, there's a message that appears in the bottom left and the boss summons an angelic and a big plus to break with the tether. 
There's a limit to the number of vex that can slip by, it's 3 per tower.  Honestly no vex should slip past, they summon in waves of like 8-10 and a single person with enlightened should be able to crack all the shields in a few seconds. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Was already posted in group chat.

What I still need:

Whisper of the Worm (1:28)
Anarchy (1:50)
Outbreak Perfected (2:11)
Legend of Acrius (2:33)
Izanagi's Burden & Catalyst (2:43)

Bad Juju & Catalyst (3:00)
Huckleberry Catalyst (3:12)
Ace of Spades (3:26)
Ruinous Effigy (3:36)

Tarrabah (3:43)
Sleeper Simulant (4:02)
Thorn (4:24)
Last Word (4:47)
Truth (5:01)
Lumina (5:09) (This should probably be near Thorn in the list if you watch the video)
Polaris Lance (5:32)
Telesto Catalyst (5:40)
Worldline Zero & Catalyst (5:54)
Jotunn & Le Monarque (6:28)
Rat King (6:40)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...