Malaphax Posted July 21, 2020 Report Share Posted July 21, 2020 The difference between a government mandated mask order and a government mandated vaccine is body autonomy. The government can mandate that you wear something (public nudity is generally frowned upon) or participate in various safety measures (seat-belts). But the government cannot force you to become an organ donor (some countries heavily incentivize this) or how your body will be disposed of. Body autonomy is a pretty big deal, which is why when forced sterilization comes up people take it very seriously, and the UN classifies this as a type of genocide. Another example would be prisoners can't be used to test medical treatments without their express consent, even when you're incarcerated you're given a certain amount of body autonomy and nearly every industrial nation takes that very seriously. I doubt that the government will ever force people to be vaccinated, even today we have measles or TB infections that spread, partly because there's a certain subset of people who refuse to get vaccinated and some people who cannot be vaccinated (specific medical reasons). I suspect that the government will do what it did with the Polio vaccine, which is a propaganda campaign. There's the famous campaign of Elvis Presley getting a polio vaccine helped push the vaccination rate up dramatically. I suspect we'll see some celebrities getting vaccinated or major politicians getting vaccinated. Honestly I'm more concerned that the vaccine(s) will be in very high demand and relatively short supply, we might end up with a lottery type system or have people pay large out of pocket expenses for vaccines. The massive logistics of making the vaccine widely available in this country alone will be a tremendous undertaking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuhla Posted July 21, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2020 4 hours ago, Malaphax said: .......is body autonomy....... I do not like using that term. It feels like it has a lot of baggage nowadays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuhla Posted August 9, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2020 https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/early/2020/08/07/sciadv.abd3083 Quote 1, ‘Surgical’ * Surgical mask, 3-layer 2, ‘Valved N95’ N95 mask with exhalation valve 3, ‘Knitted’ Knitted mask 4, ‘PolyProp’ 2-layer polypropylene apron mask 5, ‘Poly/Cotton’ Cotton-polypropylene-cotton mask 6, ‘MaxAT’ 1-layer Maxima AT mask 7, ‘Cotton2’ 2-layer cotton, pleated style mask 8, ‘Cotton4’ 2-layer cotton, Olson style mask 9, ‘Cotton3′ 2-layer cotton, pleated style mask 10, ‘Cotton1’ 1-layer cotton, pleated style mask 11, ‘Fleece’ Gaiter type neck fleece 12, ‘Bandana’ * Double-layer bandana 13, ‘Cotton5′ * 2-layer cotton, pleated style mask 14, ‘Fitted N95’ N95 mask, no exhalation valve, fitted ‘Swath’ Swath of mask material, polypropylene ‘None’ * Control experiment, no mask Bandana, knitted and fleece are garbage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T1no Posted August 13, 2020 Report Share Posted August 13, 2020 posted on chat. im not going to pretend that i understand the whole thing but i like his explanations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuhla Posted August 13, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2020 The possible explanation of T cell response for some asymptomatic people from similar viruses in the past was an interesting idea but also, AGAIN it is being stated that the size of the virus load matters and wearing masks can make a big difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T1no Posted August 13, 2020 Report Share Posted August 13, 2020 1 hour ago, kuhla said: The possible explanation of T cell response for some asymptomatic people from similar viruses in the past was an interesting idea but also, AGAIN it is being stated that the size of the virus load matters and wearing masks can make a big difference. indeed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuhla Posted August 17, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2020 https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/science/coronavirus-vaccine-tracker.html I did not know there was an "live" website to track the vaccine progress. I was just following on individual news stories with updates. Nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuhla Posted October 28, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2020 article - https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/27/world/we-believe-in-science-washington-oregon-and-nevada-join-californias-vaccine-review-plan.html Quote A week after Gov. Gavin Newsom of California announced that a panel of experts from his state would independently review any federally approved coronavirus vaccines before they were administered to residents, the governors of Washington, Oregon and Nevada announced they’d join California’s effort. .... West coast united. Also all democrat governors so that probably helped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuhla Posted November 20, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2020 If the gov adopts that vaccine plan, feelsbadman I think all of us are in the very very last phase even after the kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuhla Posted November 24, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2020 So you got Moderna/NIH (USA). Must be shipped at 2 C. Can be 1 dose (70%+ effective) but will probably be administered as 2 doses (90%+ effective). "Old-fashioned" adenovirus. AstraZeneca/Oxford (UK) - Must be shipped at -20 C. Requires 2 doses (90%+ effective). Fancy mRNA. Pfizer/BioNTech (Germany) - Must be shipped at -70 C. Requires 2 doses (90%+ effective). Fancy mRNA. That is just typical isn't it. The German engineered solution is good but expensive, complicated and requires tight tolerances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuhla Posted November 25, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2020 Quote Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) Director Robert Redfield said Tuesday that a COVID-19 vaccine would be released “by the end of the second week of December.” .... article - https://thehill.com/homenews/news/527408-cdc-director-covid-19-vaccine-will-be-rolled-out-second-week-in-december Timeline seems to fit with most estimates I have seen from other sources. Quote Conclusion Greater proportion of vitamin D-deficient individuals with SARS-CoV-2 infection turned SARS-CoV-2 RNA negative with a significant decrease in fibrinogen on high-dose cholecalciferol supplementation. article - https://pmj.bmj.com/content/early/2020/11/12/postgradmedj-2020-139065 It has already been pretty universally agreed upon in the health and fitness community that just about everyone should be supplementing vit D3 and this is just another reason. There have also been multiple articles already talking about certain common vitamin and mineral deficiencies causing additional issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuhla Posted December 1, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2020 article - https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/uk-vaccine-covid-19-restaurants-bars-blocked-1.5822648 Quote .... The British minister responsible for vaccine rollout, Nadhim Zahawi, said getting vaccinated should be voluntary but that Google, Facebook and Twitter should do more to fact-check opposing views of vaccines. Asked if the U.K. would introduce an immunity passport, Zahawi said a person's COVID-19 vaccine status might be included in a phone app, similar to the Test and Trace app used by the National Health Service, that would inform local doctors of a person's status. "I think you'd probably find that restaurants and bars and cinemas and other venues, sports venues, will probably also use that system as they've done with the [Test and Trace] app," he said. "The sort of pressure will come both ways: from service providers — who will say 'look, demonstrate to us that you have been vaccinated' — but also, we will make the technology as easy and accessible as possible." .... This is in reference to the UK and I think the chances of something like a "vaccine passport" is really low but this is starting to get into more complicated territory. You have to incentivize vaccination right? How far can you push that without infringing on body autonomy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi2155 Posted December 2, 2020 Report Share Posted December 2, 2020 Pretty sure vaccination was a requirement for a long time, I had to get vaccinated to go to high school for example etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malaphax Posted December 2, 2020 Report Share Posted December 2, 2020 34 minutes ago, Jedi2155 said: Pretty sure vaccination was a requirement for a long time, I had to get vaccinated to go to high school for example etc. Certain immunizations have been needed for entry into this country, although that was mostly back in the Ellis island days of immigration. You're correct that vaccinations are required by schools, but not all school's will require those vaccinations (there was also a big fight in California regarding medical exemptions), private schools may elect not to require that, or you could homeschool your kids (please don't). The difference is that now we're potentially tying freedom of movement or patronage to vaccines, and that's a whole different level of restriction. I think for entry into different countries we will see some form of vaccination requirement, and there's very little you can do to get around that (barring illegally forging documents). You do run into the issue of, who is tracking this information? Do you provide it to the US passport office that you have had the vaccine? How is that communicated to other countries? Is there a centralized database somewhere? Where it gets more complicated - is travel inside the US and accessing various businesses. I guarantee that will result in a lawsuit that will eventually reach the supreme court. Does a private business have the authority to access that type of medical information? If a business can require proof of vaccination, how do they verify this information; where is that being stored? What happens if "essential" businesses require a vaccination? From a medical angle there's also the concern that a vaccine may not eliminate the spread of the virus - we still don't know if you can shed the virus after being vaccinated. Not to mention the vaccine may not provide permanent immunity. There's also the staggered rollout - which means there will be a point in time when a large portion of the population will be vaccinated and a small portion will not, is it fair to discriminate against people who have not been vaccinated? Can a grocery store turn you away? Public transport? Government facilities? I'm not trying to be a doomsayer, but I feel like people are so sick of 2020 they don't realize we're going to be facing different problems in 2021. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T1no Posted December 2, 2020 Report Share Posted December 2, 2020 yea 2021 is gonna be interesting. i think i posted this before but i like this idea. while we know that rapidtest is somewhat unreliable, but they were saying if we do it enough like twice-three times a week and people can do it at the comfort at their own home and reasonably priced. it should help containing this mess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T1no Posted December 16, 2020 Report Share Posted December 16, 2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T1no Posted December 19, 2020 Report Share Posted December 19, 2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T1no Posted January 6, 2021 Report Share Posted January 6, 2021 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuhla Posted January 6, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2021 It does not really get much worse than this does it? Everyone is affected by this. Even people who are not sick. No one can afford to take unnecessary risks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuhla Posted January 13, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2021 Ok so... If you go here https://occovid19.ochealthinfo.com/ There is a link to this http://www.othena.com/ The "first time" link takes you to this https://covid19.othena.com/patient-registration/agreement but if you look on the subreddit for OC there is a more direct link to this https://covid19.othena.com/patient-registration/register I'm not sure how #3 differs from #4. Is #4 bypassing #3? It's the same domain. I will talk with my mom about this since she now qualifies for the current phase because of the new guidelines about age for this phase. Maybe she can get vaccinated this month? Would make me feel better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T1no Posted January 14, 2021 Report Share Posted January 14, 2021 nice. i guess since this is in serious discussion. regarding the vaccine. we got 2 main ones here in the us that are heavily distributed. PfizerBiontec https://www.fda.gov/emergency-preparedness-and-response/coronavirus-disease-2019-covid-19/pfizer-biontech-covid-19-vaccine PDF: https://www.fda.gov/media/144414/download The Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine is administered as a 2-dose series, 3 weeks apart, into the muscle. ----------------------------------------------------- Moderna https://www.fda.gov/emergency-preparedness-and-response/coronavirus-disease-2019-covid-19/moderna-covid-19-vaccine PDF: https://www.fda.gov/media/144638/download The Moderna COVID-19 Vaccine is administered as a 2-dose series, 1 month apart, into the muscle. Some stuff that i pull out from the pdf on both of these vaccine Tell the vaccination provider about all of your medical conditions, including if you: • have any allergies • have a fever • have a bleeding disorder or are on a blood thinner • are immunocompromised or are on a medicine that affects your immune system • are pregnant or plan to become pregnant • are breastfeeding • have received another COVID-19 vaccine WHO SHOULD NOT GET THE PFIZER-BIONTECH/MODERNA COVID-19 VACCINE? You should not get the Pfizer-BioNTech/Moderna COVID-19 Vaccine if you: • had a severe allergic reaction after a previous dose of this vaccine • had a severe allergic reaction to any ingredient of this vaccine. what's everyone sentiments for vaccination right now? do you prefer one over the other if you had to choose? do you have concern in the long run ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuhla Posted January 14, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2021 sentiments for vaccination right now? Only "3-4% of cases (7.4% for those over age 65) symptoms are severe enough to cause hospitalization". The number who die from it are a smaller number. Those are pretty good odds but when it comes to my health or my mom's health then I am not comfortable with the odds. Every time she or I go to the grocery store, take a walk, order food, etc. even with masks and social distancing that is another chance to get infected and then roll the dice for your odds. I cannot control the odds of me getting into an auto accident. This vaccine does allow me some control over the odds of covid infection. Over 10 million people in the US have taken the first dose of one of the vaccines. I feel like if there was a widespread problem it would have shown up already. That is already ignoring the tens of thousands of people who were part of the trials in the US and UK who received both doses without widely reported issues. do you prefer one over the other if you had to choose? Between moderna and pfizer? Not really no. If there was more "left out of freezer intentionally" events occurring then I would probably prefer the moderna because less chance of it being ruined (does not require extreme cold storage) but that is not happening that we know of. I have no idea where the Oxford one is at. do you have concern in the long run ? Compared to cancer? Compared to cardiovascular disease? Compared to another recession? Compared to biodiversity collapse? Compared to funding some kind of retirement? Not really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T1no Posted January 14, 2021 Report Share Posted January 14, 2021 sounds reasonable. agreed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuhla Posted January 15, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2021 Aaron Collins - https://www.youtube.com/user/coll0412/videos Saw this guy linked on reddit. He has been doing some mask reviews and including some actual empirical testing and logging results in a google doc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuhla Posted January 15, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2021 I do not think Dr. Fauci agrees with the strategy to rush the first dose out but after watching this video it does seem like even just one dose still does make a very significant difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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