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Nvidia 3000 Series


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I will try to remember to rename this when he know the names maybe.

source - https://www.engadget.com/nvidia-geforce-graphics-cards-tease-153636073.html

Quote

NVIDIA posted a tease for... something on its GeForce Twitter account Monday. A tweet didn’t offer much detail beyond an #UltimateCountdown hashtag and an extremely vague, short video. The banner image on the account’s profile offers a little more detail, though. It uses the same hashtag, along with a line that reads “21 days. 21 years.”

    ...#UltimateCountdown pic.twitter.com/f23HcbHUk6
    — NVIDIA GeForce (@NVIDIAGeForce) August 10, 2020

That countdown ends on August 31st, which will be the 21st anniversary of the very first GeForce GPU. So, it could simply be a timer for an anniversary celebration. However, rumors have been rumbling that NVIDIA will announce its GeForce 3000 series graphics cards within the next month, so it very well could have more hardware to show off in three weeks.

Seems like there is a good chance this is the launch.

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I'm genuinely curious how hot this card is, they've already dedicated 2 massive fans an enough cooling fins to take up 3x PCI slots and way above standard height. 

Steve from GamersNexus did a really good breakdown on the new 12-pin connector a while back.  He heavily implies that most OEMs will stick to 2x 8-pin connectors and only the reference cards will have the 12-pin
He also mentions is mostly a marketing gimmick there's very little technical reason for the new connector.
https://youtu.be/AXEbCwGv00Q?t=291

speculation

Nvidia tried to play hardball with TSMC and got told to go fuck themselves, I've read multiple reports about the GPU dies are being manufactured by Samsung this time around on 8nm (some people refer to as 10nm) and NOT the TSMC 7nm process.  I don't know enough about chip design to understand the exact differences between Samsung chips and TSMC chips but I'm slightly worried that if AMD releases something competitive that Nvidia will turn around and releases their Super/Ti cards on the TSMC 7nm process to retake the performance crown.  We've had a similar situation previously with some phone models from Samsung either using Qualcomm or Samsung chips and there being tangible performance differences. 
I have no idea how feasible that would be, but considering Nvidia has shown previously that they're willing to have a mid-cycle re-release just to maintain their market share, I wouldn't put it past them.

/speculation

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Different processes between different fabs is like asking a Honda factory to build a Ford truck. You design a chip with the tools given by a fab, and if you switch fabs you literally have to spend months redoing the entire chip design to accommodate the weirdness associated with a different producers design tools for their specific fabrication method.

There is a lot variations and unique technologies owned by each of the major chip makers i.e. variations in high-k dielectrics, 3D chip design (intel) etc. Using the nanometer to compare chip design processes is like using # cylinders to compare car performance. Sure you can, but there has been so many advances in the space that can't compare them like you use to.

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"The NVIDIA GeForce Special Event 2020 Live Blog"

article - https://www.anandtech.com/show/16060/the-nvidia-geforce-special-event-2020-live-blog

My main takeaways from today's stream.

  1. The PCB of the 3080 is tiny. The cooling solution is what makes up most of the size of the card. Thinking back to cooling solutions that OEMs have used in the past, I believe Nvidia when they say this solution is both quieter and cooler.
  2. 3080: Up to 2x the performance of the 2080. $699. Launches Sept 17. Only 2 slot and appears to be normal height. Where is the power connector?
  3. 3070: Faster than a 2080ti. $499. Available in October. Single 12pin power connector on top.
  4. 3080: Huge. Expensive. I don't care.

I agree with malaphax that I'm guessing a lot of the performance numbers will be with RTX on so they can inflate them a bit.

I'm curious why the leak prices were $100 higher.

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https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/news/introducing-rtx-30-series-graphics-cards/

The power connector is at a 45 degree angle on the corner of the card (remember 12-pin, which means you'll just be using an adapter from 2x 8-pin cables), that weird PCB shape and cooling solution meant they had to move it. 
Nvidia has been slowly trying to distinguish their own "founders" edition cards, it's fairly clear that Nvidia wants to move in and squeeze out the AIB market.  I'm curious if they'll eventually cut all the AIBs out and go full apple, if they maintain their 80% market share that might happen in another 2 generations. 
They moved away from their crappy blower fans to a more open design with the 2000 series and for the 3000 series they seem to have really stepped up their game.  If the thermals and noise are as good as they claim, I suspect they might stick with this design for another generation as well, maybe with some refinements. 

Various tech news reporters have said that Nvidia has a habit of deciding on price at the very last minute, supposedly even adding the pricing to the slides mere hours before their presentations.  That sounds silly to me, but I wouldn't be entirely surprised if Nvidia keeps the pricing very close to the chest to prevent leaks, including leaving it off of the marketing slides until the last minute. 

Also remember last generation they did some weird garbage with their pricing where they announced a lower price than the actual sales price because "founders editions are $100 extra, pay the troll toll" then the AIBs came in and sold cards at the increased MSRP for the first months.  I remember multiple outlets that got mad about misleading pricing information.   If the founders editions are actually $100 higher, that could mean the leaks were right all along. 

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7 minutes ago, T1no said:

i like the founder ed. do these AIB usually better ?

AIBs are traditionally quieter, cooler and often include out-of-the-box overclocks but whether that makes them "better" is sort of a matter of perspective.

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Here's a decent chart showing how various AIB cards have very slight advantages over the founder's edition direct from nvidia:
index.php?ct=articles&action=file&id=526

Same thing with thermals/noise:
index.php?ct=articles&action=file&id=526

My understanding is that the very top end AIB cards do also have some silicon lottery which is why they can support those slightly higher overclocks out of the box. 
If you're serious about overclocking and running msi afterburner profiles on startup then the main difference with AIB cards is the thermals/noise.  I specifically chose my current card based on those characteristics.  I'll wait to see how the new founder's edition compares to the AIB cards on the thermals/noise front and then decide from there. 
Also if you're feeling fancy, you can also try undervolting the card at stock clocks or even slightly higher clocks, which can result in a cooler/quieter card if you do it right.  But it does take a fair bit of trial and error. 

Minor note.  The new founder's edition card has that exhaust fan that's dumping hot air directly above the GPU and into the CPU cooler, it's a possibility that this could increase CPU temps if you have an air cooler.  No idea if that will have a practical effect, but GamersNexus is planning on testing it when the cards release. 

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But can it run Doom? at 4k ultra settings

Hell yea it can.  Looks like a pretty decent jump from about 80fps to 140fps at 4k which is a pretty nice performance improvement.  I don't want to board the hype train just yet, but it seems like people who went all in with 2080ti's are the ones getting totally screwed. 
I know jensen was hyping this up to be another 1000 series type of generational leaps in performance, but so far I've actually seen them deliver.  I suspect Nvidia is going to sell a metric shitload of these 3000 series cards. 

 

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2 hours ago, Malaphax said:

But can it run Doom? at 4k ultra settings

Hell yea it can.  Looks like a pretty decent jump from about 80fps to 140fps at 4k which is a pretty nice performance improvement.  I don't want to board the hype train just yet, but it seems like people who went all in with 2080ti's are the ones getting totally screwed. 
I know jensen was hyping this up to be another 1000 series type of generational leaps in performance, but so far I've actually seen them deliver.  I suspect Nvidia is going to sell a metric shitload of these 3000 series cards.

The one piece of tech I have seen so far that I'm curious to see more about is the DLSS for "everything". The idea of playing games at 1440p ultra settings but having it "smart upscaled" to 4K sounds kinda nice. I'm ready to upgrade to 4K screens.

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Having used a reasonable amount of DLSS at this point, I can say that the technology makes sense.  Even AMD's "Contrast Adaptive Sharpening" works on a similar principle of dynamically sharpening upscaled content.  Obviously resolution is the largest factor in game performance and being able to choose to run games at higher resolution and lower settings vs lower resolution and maxed settings with upscaling makes that choice a no-brainer. 

Digital foundry made a good video a while back about DLSS 2.0, they predominantly pushed the idea of 1080p render resolution on a 4k display and the results are definitely solid.  I suspect that as Nvidia continues to roll this technology out to other games (most likely nvidia sponsored games first) we'll see some pretty major performance boosts from this tech. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Review round up: https://videocardz.com/newz/nvidia-geforce-rtx-3080-founders-edition-review-roundup

The thermals and acoustics are in line with the 2080, which doesn't sound impressive until you realize that the power consumption is off the charts with TDP of 320W.  So considering how hot this thing would otherwise run, it's somewhat impressive what the thermal solution from nvidia is doing.  I'm curious what the AIB noise/temps will looks like. 

While I strongly suspect that the new radeon 6000 series won't put too much pressure on the 3080, it seems like the best course of action is to wait until the end of October, when more AIB cards are available for the 3080 and we have benchmarks from AMD to compare to. 

 

 

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Rumors say that availability will a bit rough, the samsung foundries are supposedly not getting great yields.  But then again each launch has had poor availability for nvidia GPUs. 

Also the AIB 3080 launch is actually scheduled for tomorrow, so we won't see that 1 month of exclusivity that nvidia has previously done.  This will be the "first round" of AIB cards.  The AIBs were given limited time to develop their coolers so they mostly recycled prior coolers.  They may end up coming up with "fancier" versions of their cooling designs in another few months, but it would depend on what the performance/acoustics compared to the founders edition. 

I'm still waiting on a big breakdown from gamersnexus on how the new founders edition affects CPU temps, but Linus ran a quick test and showed that while the GPU is definitely dumping hot air into the CPU and RAM the 3080 heat dump was actually better than the founders 2080.

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1 hour ago, Malaphax said:

.....

The AIBs were given limited time to develop their coolers so they mostly recycled prior coolers.  They may end up coming up with "fancier" versions of their cooling designs in another few months, but it would depend on what the performance/acoustics compared to the founders edition.

.....

This statement extends to both GPU and CPU coolers: I'm not convinced there is much room left for innovation with coolers. A little better fans, a little better heatpipes, a little better flow, a little better water pumps sure but the fundamental formula has not changed for many many years now. Assuming a cooler is using more of the more "proven" designs, I prefer to compare other variables like noise, size/compatibility, price, etc.

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While I mostly agree that cooling design has started to hit a plateau, I think the difference is that the 3000 series CAN utilize a shorter PCB which opens up the opportunity for weird designs like the founders edition. 

Beyond the basic cooler design there's also manufacturing tolerances.  There's a reason why Gamersnexus measures how uniform the cooling plates are - it can lead to better performance or inconsistent performance depending on the tolerances.  I think there were even some reviews of 5700xt cards where shoddy design resulted in hotter cards, or simply tightening cooler screws could see an increase in cooling performance. 

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